Variation of system energy in Canonical Ensemble

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the variation of system energy within the context of the canonical ensemble in statistical mechanics. Participants explore the implications of specifying a macrostate defined by particle number, volume, and temperature, and how this relates to the internal energy of the system and its fluctuations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the system energy can vary when the macrostate (N,V,T) is specified, suggesting that internal energy should be a function of temperature and volume.
  • Another participant clarifies that the expected value of internal energy is the macroscopic quantity dependent on N and T.
  • A different participant discusses the process of finding the density matrix by minimizing Gibbs' entropy, emphasizing the exploration of microstates with varying energy under the constraint of a constant ensemble average energy.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding, realizing they conflated thermodynamic internal energy with that of an individual system, and seeks confirmation on the existence of multiple microstates corresponding to the same macrostate.
  • Another participant confirms that energy exchange between the system and reservoir is linked to statistical fluctuations, which were previously overlooked.
  • A participant provides a mathematical expression for relative fluctuations in internal energy, indicating that the standard deviation of these fluctuations decreases with increasing particle number.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of multiple microstates corresponding to the same macrostate and the role of statistical fluctuations in energy exchange. However, the initial confusion regarding the relationship between thermodynamic internal energy and ensemble averages indicates some unresolved conceptual differences.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between macroscopic constraints and microscopic states, as well as the dependence of energy fluctuations on the number of particles in the system.

devd
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A system is in contact with a reservoir at a specific temperature. The macrostate of the system is specified by the triple (N,V,T) viz., particle number, volume and temperature.

The canonical ensemble can be used to analyze the situation. In the canonical ensemble, the system can exchange energy with the reservoir, with the system energy varying, in principle, from zero to infinity.

I don't understand how the system energy can vary once we specify (N,V,T). The internal energy, after all, can be considered to be a function of T and V, U=U(T,V).

Surely, we're not talking about the fluctuation, i.e. the standard deviation in energy, since that is very small for systems with large N. Where am I going wrong?
 
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The ##\underline{\text{expected value}}## of the internal energy ##<U>## is the (macroscopical) quantity that depends of ##N##,##T##.
 
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In order to find the density matrix, you have to minimize the Gibb's entropy: $$S= -k_B Tr(\hat \rho ln \hat \rho)$$
With the constraints: $$Tr(\hat \rho)=1$$ and $$ <U>=Tr(\hat \rho \hat H) =E= constant$$
i.e, you let your system explore all the microstates (which include microstates with different energy) that are compatible with the macroscopic constraint ##<U>=E=constant##
 
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Yes, i think i get where i was going wrong. I was equating the thermodynamic notion of internal energy to the internal energy of one individual system, instead of the ensemble average. Thanks for the reply.

Just to be clear, there are multiple microstates with different U which correspond to the same macrostate defined by (N,V,T), right?
Also, this exchange of energy between the system and reservoir is basically due to statistical fluctuation, which i was ignoring?
 
Exactly.
Moreover, you can prove that, if we define ##\delta U = \frac{<U>-U}{U}## then the standard deviation of ##\delta U## (the relative fluctuations) decay as:
$$ <(\delta U)^{2}> \sim \frac{1}{N}$$
 
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