Variation of the Einstein-Hilbert action in noncoordinate basis

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter center o bass
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Basis Variation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the variation of the Einstein-Hilbert action in a noncoordinate basis, exploring the implications of this variation compared to the standard coordinate basis approach. Participants examine the derivation of additional terms that arise in the noncoordinate case, particularly focusing on the role of structure constants and the behavior of the Ricci tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the variation of the Einstein-Hilbert action in a noncoordinate basis introduces an extra term related to the structure constants, leading to a modified expression for the variation of the Ricci tensor.
  • Another participant questions the implications of using tangent space basis vectors, suggesting that if the structure constants are constant, the variation of these constants may vanish.
  • There is a discussion on whether the condition ##{C^c}_{cd} = 0## could hold, which some participants propose as a potential simplification.
  • A later reply emphasizes that when varying the components of the metric, the associated basis also varies, indicating that the variation of the structure constants does not simply disappear.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the derivation of the additional term involving ##C_{cd}^{\ \ c}## and how it relates to the overall variation process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the structure constants in the variation process. Multiple competing views remain regarding the treatment of these constants and their impact on the variation of the Einstein-Hilbert action.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge potential limitations in their calculations and assumptions, particularly regarding the behavior of structure constants in varying bases and the conditions under which certain terms may vanish.

center o bass
Messages
545
Reaction score
2
The variation of the Einstein Hilbert action is usually done in coordinate basis where there is a crucial divergence term one can neglect which arise in the variation of the Ricci tensor, and is given by ##g^{ab}\delta R_{ab} = \nabla_c w^c## where
$$w^c = g^{ab}(g^{db} \delta \Gamma^{c}_{db} - g^{cb} \delta\Gamma^c_{db})$$.
However, when one varies in a noncoordinate basis, one supposedly (see link below) get's an extra term and arrive at
$$g^{ab}\delta R_{ab} = \nabla_c w^c - C^c_{cd} \delta \Gamma^d_{ab}g^{ab}.$$

How is this result derived?

My calculations so far is the following: From the Riemann tensor in a noncoordinate basis ##\{e_a \}## with structure constants ##[e_b, e_c] = C^a_{bc}e_a## given by
$$R^a_{bcd} = e_c \Gamma^a_{db} - e_d\Gamma^a_{cb} + \Gamma^f_{db} \Gamma^a_{cf} - \Gamma^f_{cb} \Gamma^a_{df} - C^f_{cd} \Gamma^a_{fb}$$
the variation yields
$$\delta R^a_{bcd} = e_c \delta \Gamma^a_{db} - e_d\delta \Gamma^a_{cb} + \delta\Gamma^f_{db} \Gamma^a_{cf} + \Gamma^f_{db} \delta\Gamma^a_{cf} - \delta\Gamma^f_{cb} \Gamma^a_{df} - \Gamma^f_{cb} \delta \Gamma^a_{df} - C^f_{cd} \delta \Gamma^a_{fb}- \delta C^f_{cd} \Gamma^a_{fb}$$
From here we can extract three terms of the respective covariant derivatives ##\nabla_d \delta \Gamma^a_{cb}## and ##\nabla_c \delta \Gamma^a_{db}##; however the terms ##\Gamma^f_{cd}\delta \Gamma^a_{fb}## and ##\Gamma^f_{dc} \delta \Gamma^a_{fb}## are not present. Taking these into account, I get
$$\delta R^a_{bcd} = \nabla_c \delta \Gamma^a_{db} - \nabla_d \delta \Gamma^a_{cb} + (\Gamma^f_{cd} - \Gamma^f_{dc}) \delta \Gamma^a_{fb} - C_{cd}^f\delta\Gamma^a_{fb} - \delta C_{cd}^f\Gamma^a_{fb}= \nabla_c \delta \Gamma^a_{db} - \nabla_d \delta \Gamma^a_{cb}- \delta C_{cd}^f\Gamma^a_{fb}.$$
If there are no error in my calculations, where do I go from here? Assuming I have done nothing wrong so far, it seems like one must achieve the equality ##\delta C_{cd}^f\Gamma^c_{fb} g^{db} = C^c_{cd} \delta \Gamma^d_{ab}g^{ab}##.. Any ideas on how this equality might be obtained?Equation (2.9) in: http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/jmp/15/6/10.1063/1.1666735
 
Physics news on Phys.org
As the subject of the thread states, I wonder about noncoordinate bases. I.e. bases for which ##e_a \neq \partial_a##.
 
Tangent space basis vectors like ##e_a = f \partial_a## commute, so the problem goes away for them.
If ##{C^f}_{cd}## is constant, then is ##\delta {C^f}_{cd} = 0## ?

In which case you need ## {C^c}_{cd} = 0##, which could be the case.

[Edit]
I guess you saw my deleted post.
 
Mentz114 said:
Tangent space basis vectors like ##e_a = f \partial_a## commute, so the problem goes away for them.
If ##{C^f}_{cd}## is constant, then is ##\delta {C^f}_{cd} = 0## ?

In which case you need ## {C^c}_{cd} = 0##, which could be the case.

[Edit]
I guess you saw my deleted post.

When one varies the components of the
metric (expressed in a basis), one also varies the associated basis, and since the structure constants are spacetime functions associated to a particular basis, these varies too. Thus, it seems like the variation of the structure constant does not disappear.
 
Mentz114 said:
Tangent space basis vectors like ##e_a = f \partial_a## commute, so the problem goes away for them.
If ##{C^f}_{cd}## is constant, then is ##\delta {C^f}_{cd} = 0## ?

In which case you need ## {C^c}_{cd} = 0##, which could be the case.

[Edit]
I guess you saw my deleted post.

To correct my previous answer to you, I do agree that the structure constants are constant, since the variation is performed for a fixed basis.

Thus, the mystery where the additional term involving ##C_{cd}^{\ \ c}## comes from is even bigger.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 71 ·
3
Replies
71
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
5K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K