Verifying Time Effect of Gravity: Accurate to a Few Thousands of a Percent

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the verification of the time effect of gravity as observed in two satellites in elliptical orbits. Participants explore the implications of General Relativity (GR) on the behavior of atomic clocks in varying gravitational fields and speeds, considering both theoretical predictions and the experimental results of the satellite observations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the most accurate verification of the time effect of gravity involved satellites in elliptical orbits, where their atomic clocks ran slower near Earth and faster at higher altitudes, aligning with GR predictions within a few thousands of a percent.
  • Another participant expresses concern about the implications of the elliptical orbits, questioning whether the effects of altitude and speed on the clocks would cancel out over time, as they alternate between being deeper in the gravity well and farther out.
  • A different participant highlights that there are two effects to consider: altitude (where lower altitude results in slower clock rates) and speed (where higher speeds also lead to slower clock rates). They suggest that a satellite in an elliptical orbit might experience more elapsed time per orbit compared to a circular orbit due to spending more time at higher altitudes and lower speeds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the overall effects of elliptical orbits on clock rates, with differing interpretations of how altitude and speed interact. No consensus is reached on whether the effects cancel out or lead to a net increase in elapsed time.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that there are technical points that may not be fully addressed, and some assumptions about the behavior of clocks in varying gravitational fields and speeds remain unresolved.

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To date, the most accurate verification of the time effect of gravity is where two satellites were accidentally put into elliptical orbits where the altitude varied by 8,500 kilometers ( 5,282 mi). Their atomic clocks ran slower near Earth and faster at higher altitude. The agreement with GR was within a few thousands of a percent. (see https://www.sciencenews.org/article/satellite-oops-reaffirms-einstein-theory-gravity )
 
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FactChecker said:
two satellites were accidentally put into elliptical orbits
Oh, that sounds like a horrendously expensive woopsie
 
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Just curious; what does GR predict about the effects of this elliptical orbit on the clocks? I mean the overall effect when averaged over time. When the satellite is at apogee, it is farther out of the gravity well, and when at perigee, it is deeper inside the gravity well. It sounds like these two effects should cancel out, leaving the overall progress of the clock to be the same as if the satellite were in a circular orbit (or equal area), with the highs and lows having opposite it equal effect. However, for some reason I find myself doubting my own conclusion, there. Would the inverse square law mean that the two extremes of altitude would have opposite but unequal effect (see, that doesn’t sound right either)?

Also, thanks for the link; really interesting stuff. Glad that something useful game of it.
 
LURCH said:
When the satellite is at apogee, it is farther out of the gravity well, and when at perigee, it is deeper inside the gravity well.

Remember that there are two effects here: altitude (lower -> clocks run slower) and speed (faster -> clocks run slower). (I am glossing over a number of technical points that are beyond the scope of a B level thread.) A satellite in an elliptical orbit spends more time at higher altitude and lower speed, and less time at lower altitude and higher speed. So off the top of my head, I would expect the overall effect to be more elapsed time per orbit (i.e., clocks running faster) as compared to an "equivalent" circular orbit. But I have not tried to do the math in detail.
 
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