Vibrations of waves with pinned vs free boundary conditions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences in frequencies associated with waves, particularly in the context of musical instruments, when comparing pinned versus free boundary conditions. Participants explore theoretical aspects, practical implications, and examples from musical acoustics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the reasons why pinned boundaries lead to higher frequencies compared to free boundaries in wave phenomena.
  • Another participant explains that pinned boundaries create nodes while unpinned boundaries create antinodes, affecting the wavelength and thus the frequency of the fundamental mode in resonant systems.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that having unpinned boundaries at both ends can also produce a half wave resonance, similar to pinned boundaries, though practical challenges exist in achieving this configuration.
  • Participants discuss various configurations of boundary conditions in musical instruments, noting that many instruments cannot have both ends unpinned.
  • References to literature on boundary conditions are provided, highlighting similarities between waves on strings and sound waves.
  • Further exploration of specific instruments, such as the differences in sound production between oboes and clarinets, is introduced, noting the complexity of their acoustic properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the consistency of the explanations regarding boundary conditions and their effects on wave frequencies. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention practical difficulties in achieving certain boundary conditions in musical instruments, which may affect the theoretical models discussed. There are also references to specific acoustic properties of instruments that introduce additional complexity to the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in acoustics, musical instrument design, wave theory, and boundary condition effects may find this discussion relevant.

member 428835
Hi PF!

Can someone explain to me why in math/physics the frequencies associated with waves (or say drum heads) tend to be larger when the boundaries are pinned as opposed to free? If possible, do you know any published literature on this?

Thanks!
 
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Consider a resonant column of air (like a flute). If you have an unpinned boundary it turns into an antinode and a pinned boundary turns into a node when you are thinking of the fundamental frequency. So with two pinned boundaries you have a wavelength equal to twice your tube length and with only one pinned boundary you have a wavelength equal to four times your tube length. The shorter wavelength corresponds to a higher frequency.
 
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I don't think this is all consistent. An unpinned boundary at each end will have a half wave resonance - same as with a pinned boundary at each end. There are practical difficulties achieving this, though. Open ends make it difficult to mount things like vibrating strings and diaphragms.
 
I was thinking pinned at one end and then the other end either pinned or unpinned. With most musical instruments it is hard to make both ends unpinned.
 
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Thank you both! Dale, is this in the literature anywhere formally?
 
Dale said:
I was thinking pinned at one end and then the other end either pinned or unpinned. With most musical instruments it is hard to make both ends unpinned.

Blowing on (across) the end of an open tube would qualify as that which (I suddenly remembered) applies to a flute and others. So actually all combinations are possible with common musical instruments.

I do remember that the lowest rank of organ pipes are closed end, which gives them an octave of range below the rest, for a given length. Quantity rather than sound quality perhaps.

That link again: But nothing is simple because (and again I heard this years ago and had forgotten) an oboe has a double reed and a nominally closed end, yet it has the same range as a flute, which is definitely open ended. The link seems to fudge that issue a bit but I guess it has to do with the difference between the balanced and unbalanced excitation of double and single reeds. Actually it cannot be simple (as if!) because a clarinet has a much more bass sounding note than an oboe, which is not what the basic statement about musical range would suggest. Oboe is very 'harmonicky', compared with the deep reedyness of a clarinet - but that's a whole new layer of complexity.
 
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@sophiecentaur well, your symphonic knowledge certainly exceeds mine! :bow:
 
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sophiecentaur said:
Actually it cannot be simple (as if!) because a clarinet has a much more bass sounding note than an oboe, which is not what the basic statement about musical range would suggest. Oboe is very 'harmonicky', compared with the deep reedyness of a clarinet
I believe the bore of a clarinet is cylindrical whereas the oboe is conical; this is also true for the trumpet and the flugelhorn. In each case the length is the same.
 
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Dale said:
@sophiecentaur well, your symphonic knowledge certainly exceeds mine! :bow:
I got to Grade 2 on Violin. The rest of my life has been played by ear!
 
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  • #11
This is sort of fun. Apparently each horn is more "conical" trumpet<cornet< flugelhorn< mellophone. Live and learn:

 
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