Water Density / Expansion and Life

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the unique property of water (H2O) that causes it to expand as it freezes, making ice less dense than liquid water. Participants highlight that if water's freezing point were approximately -4 degrees Celsius, it would freeze from the bottom up, drastically altering life conditions on Earth. The conversation also touches on the search for other molecules with similar density behaviors, particularly those containing 4 to 6 elements, which could suggest alternative forms of life beyond Earth.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of molecular density concepts
  • Basic knowledge of water's physical properties
  • Familiarity with the implications of freezing point on ecosystems
  • Awareness of potential extraterrestrial life conditions
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the density properties of ammonia (NH3) as it cools
  • Explore the behavior of silicon dioxide (SiO2) in relation to temperature changes
  • Investigate the molecular structure of methane (CH4) and its density variations
  • Study the implications of liquid helium (He) and its unique freezing characteristics
USEFUL FOR

Scientists, astrobiologists, and educators interested in the physical properties of water and their implications for life on Earth and beyond.

Descender
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What molecules or chemicals, other than water [H20] (that I know of), are less dense as they become cooler and their electrons slow? This is broad question, I know, but my question relates to the fact that much of our conditions of life rely on the density of water as it becomes a solid (see the last post at: by Jim Stringer). If there are other molecules or chemicals that react the same way then there could be other forms of life, besides Earth's terrestrial, outside of Earth so this is where my question originates from. I realize this may be a question of a green-horn, but I ask it nevertheless. I know there could be thousands, but I am interested in the simple molecules containing between 4 elements and 6 elements.

Thank you.
 
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Hi descender,
I know of no other material so important to life on Earth but do you know that life would never have originated if the freezing point of water had been at - ~4 degrees C rather than + ~4 degrees? Clue: water would freeze from the bottom up! Cheers, Jim
 
NEOclassic,

If water froze at -4 degrees C it would make no difference. What make lakes freeze "top-down" is that liquid water above its freezing point is more dense than ice. This quality has nothing at all to do with the actual freezing temperature.

- Warren
 
Chroot, you missed the point. Water, as it is freezing, expands UNTIL it reach about -4 degrees celsius after that it "shrinks" like everything else. NEOclassic's point is that if water froze at -4 degrees, then ice would not be lighter than water and water would freeze from the bottom up.
 

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