Wave Generation from Point Sources: Interference Patterns and Radio Aerials

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around wave generation from point sources and the resulting interference patterns, particularly in the context of radio aerials and antenna arrays. Participants explore the implications of spacing, impedance, and configurations for achieving directional radiation patterns.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that a line of point sources can create a highly directional interference pattern, with closer spacing enhancing directionality.
  • One participant confirms that antenna arrays can be designed to control radiation patterns, typically with element spacings less than a wavelength.
  • Another participant mentions the Very Large Array (VLA) in New Mexico as an example of adjustable separation in radio dishes.
  • A question is raised about how to drive an array of dipoles and how to determine their impedance based on spacing and configuration.
  • It is suggested that the impedance of closely spaced dipoles can rise when fed in phase, and a method for feeding them is proposed.
  • Concerns are expressed about the effectiveness of very close spacing of elements and the implications for beamwidth and radiation patterns.
  • One participant shares ideas about testing beam-forming with closely spaced aerials and discusses the potential of different feeding methods for arrays.
  • Another participant explains the relationship between aperture size and beamwidth, noting that there is no strict lower limit to the size of parabolic dishes.
  • A claim is made that any parabolic dish design may be equivalent within a broad range, while also suggesting that ellipses may be a more ideal shape for focusing waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the effectiveness of various configurations and designs for antenna arrays. There is no consensus on the ideal design or method for achieving the desired interference patterns and impedance characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the effectiveness of antenna designs can depend on specific applications and frequency bands, which may introduce additional complexities and considerations.

  • #61
How did you specify your model? What units were you using: wavelengths / m / inches?
It could be a GIGO thing. Happens to me all the time.
Seriously, what beamwidth were you expecting for a 2λ wide array?
 
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  • #62
"what beamwidth were you expecting for a 2λ wide array?"

Using a variant of the same routine with which I got a very surprising result, and simply looking at the graphed output, I get about 80 degrees bidirectional spread.
This is calculated at a distance of 250 wavelengths from the radiator axis.
 
  • #63
It is normal to describe beamwidth in terms of angle between 3dB points and I imagine your 80o figure is between first nulls.
For a 2λ wide parabolic antenna, the 3dB beamwidth is about 70λ/d - which would be 35o, so what you got doesn't seem out of this world for that sort of aperture.
I suggest this http://www.kyes.com/antenna/navy/basics/antennas.htm" might give you some ideas about performance, based on conventional practice.
Of course, it is normal to calculate the far field values, rather than what you have done. It normally makes the sums easier, too.
 
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  • #64
No, I used the half power point just like everyone else would.
It probably seems arrogant of me but I'm not actually interested in conventional practice. I only like it when I can make people go "wow".

My next task then is to consider the feeder arrangement. I think that with a resonant feeder it might be possible to tap standing waves to power each notional dipole and provide a correctly-phased sum of signals to a receiver.
I expect I can think of a resonant coaxial feeder as a tank. Then the same current excites the entire circuit; the same potentials exist at every node. Each notional dipole receives equal power.
If I could clearly see how to calculate the impedance of each dipole I'd feel better. Naturally, I hope to find a simplifying trick.

I attach a plot showing a slice of the wave field for 21 dipoles.
 

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  • #65
I ought have some grace, and act embarrassed; sometimes it's good to look, then jump. I see that the "first null" is probably something you read on a meter, and means 3dB point. Is it a ham term?

I know it's usual to calculate far field but I couldn't locate my polar plotting routine, and had to grab a slice from a full-field plot. I didn't want to wait forever so I made the slice as close as I dared to hope might yet give a notion of far-field patterns.

Really astonishing wave fields are predicted to come from very many - say 500 - dipoles , or notional dipoles. I have generated graphs I fear may draw scorn and disbelief, you may generate them for yourself I guess.

I don't have much real experience of the sort I need in radio. I've gained an idea of how one matches a signal to this unfamiliar bearer (I understand information transmission practice very well everywhere but radio) and most of what is in the link is quite obvious to me, but knowledge of aerial impedances is something I do not presently have

I really think I should be up to the challenge of working things out on the hop if I need to, but some days it's like it has been all day for me today - I must have thunk too hard last night working out how to make the rectangular piece of copper into an array, and today thinking about a feeder.

Do you like the feeder?
 
  • #66
please see attachment
 

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  • 3rads@pi where f is 1.PNG
    3rads@pi where f is 1.PNG
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