Wave particle duality as applied to photon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the wave-particle duality of photons, exploring whether photons should be considered electromagnetic (EM) waves or probability waves within the framework of quantum mechanics (QM). Participants examine the implications of this duality for both single and multiple photons, as well as the distinctions between photons and matter particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that wave-particle duality indicates that matter can behave as both a particle and a wave, with photons being a specific case of this duality.
  • Others argue that the behavior of photons can be treated probabilistically when considering single photons, while in large quantities, their effects can be described using classical electromagnetic wave theory.
  • A participant notes that the behavior of photons differs from that of matter particles, specifically fermions, which cannot occupy the same quantum state, complicating the application of wave descriptions to matter.
  • One participant expresses confusion about reconciling the concepts of matter waves and EM waves, questioning whether a single photon can be described as an EM wave.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether a single photon can be described as an EM wave, indicating that multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of photons in the context of wave-particle duality.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and implications of matter waves versus EM waves, particularly in the context of single versus multiple photons.

ArielGenesis
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so basically a wave particle duality principle state that sometimes a "matter" would behave as a particle and a wave a another time. The was to reconcile this is through QM's statistical interpretation and the math construct is very obvious that such proposed matter is indeed a wave-particle in duality. The wave is a matter wave or probability wave.

Now my question is, how about light, or photon. Is it an EM wave or a probability wave?
 
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The situation with the photon is the same as with the "matter" particle like electron.
 
When we have a single photon (or a "few" of them) we must deal with it as a QM particle (which is different from a classical particle) in probabilistic terms.

When we have bazillions and bazillions of photons, as we do in most "everyday" situations, we can describe their combined effects in terms of classical electromagnetic waves.
 
jtbell said:
When we have bazillions and bazillions of photons, as we do in most "everyday" situations, we can describe their combined effects in terms of classical electromagnetic waves.
It is interesting to note that we cannot do that for matter particles, because matter particles are fermions so you cannot have many fermions in the same state. A more technical way to say this is that fermions cannot be in a coherent state.
 
so, a single photon cannot be described as an EM wave?

I mean I fully understand the idea that particle is a matter-wave. I am doing QM so it is pretty familiar.

The problem is I that I cannot yet reconcile the idea that a matter wave is an EM wave as well. I have no idea what that means.
 

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