Waveform collapse due to entaglement cascade

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the quantum measurement problem, specifically focusing on the concept of waveform collapse due to entanglement. Participants explore the implications of measurement on quantum states, the nature of entanglement, and the interpretations of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the measurement process as a "weighting down" effect caused by entanglement with a measurement device, suggesting that this leads to the collapse of the wave function.
  • Another participant acknowledges the narrowing of the wave function during measurement but questions the explanatory power of this view, particularly regarding the implications for entangled particles.
  • A participant seeks to understand the source of the mystery surrounding the measurement problem, questioning the necessity of interpretations like conscious observation or many-worlds in explaining waveform collapse.
  • Suggestions for further reading are provided to help participants deepen their understanding of quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations and understandings of the quantum measurement problem, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the nature of waveform collapse or the implications of entanglement.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of entanglement and the measurement process, highlighting the complexity and unresolved aspects of the quantum measurement problem.

Heissenberg
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TL;DR
Can the waveform collapse be a result of an entanglement cascade?
In my limited understanding of the quantum measurement problem, I am imagining the whole thing as corresponding to a kind of "weighting down" by a cascade of entaglement.

Here is my very simple understanding of the quantum measurement problem: A waveform (Schrödinger equation) describes the various amplitudes for e.g. a superimposed electron at various positions, this when measured, collapses into a certain position, that can be predicted probabilistic as the square of the amplitude, or something like this.

*The measurement device is something that can amplify the signal enough to be readable (importantly it is very large in comparison to the electron).

Here is how I think of it: The unentangled electron (for example sent through a slit), gets entangled with whatever is doing the measuring of its position, and in a kind of cascade, the electron gets entangled with all quantum states of the whole and relatively large measurement apparatus. Then this entanglement “weight down" the fluctuation of the superimposed probability amplitude of the electron waveform, and thus it apparently collapses to a certain position. This happens with a probability proportional to the amplitudes at different superimposed positions (naturally as it is more likely to be there at the moment of the measurement). If/when the measurement system is large enough, the “weighting down" effect gets large enough so that the electron is apparently at a fixed position rather than superimposed at many. This is what is described as the collapse.

I am aware of the very unscientific notion "weighting down" here. I see it as something like an analog to a lever vibrating at a resonance frequency, but when more and more weight is put to the lever, the amplitude of the oscillations goes down, until it would more or less seem to be sitting still. Here the load would be constituted by the increasing number of quantum states entagled to the measured electron. But of course it would be totally different mechanisms and phenomenons in the situation with super-positional flux and entanglement.

I am also aware that this view of superposition, imply some kind of time-related vibration/movements, which might be a totally wrong way of being it, but it could then (in my mind at least) for example be at such tiny time-scales, that for all practical reasons, it is actually superimposed at all positions simultaneous.

Now, as a novice in this field, I am sure that this explanation, either is completely up the walls, doesn't make any sense and misses some of the crucial point of the problem, or in best cases it might be a very crude and inexact but slightly overlapping description of some already existing theory. In any case, and the reason I am posting this at all, is that I would be interested to get educated about why this view of the problem is wrong or inaccurate, or if it is to some degree compatible with some existing interpretation and if so, how this interpretation goes.

Best Regards
 
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Heissenberg said:
In any case, and the reason I am posting this at all, is that I would be interested to get educated about why this view of the problem is wrong or inaccurate, or if it is to some degree compatible with some existing interpretation and if so, how this interpretation goes...
:welcome:

A few comments... :smile:

Before you attempt your own explanation, it might be best to make sure you understand some of the fundamentals. Yes, when a quantum measurement occurs, there will be a "narrowing". That's your "weighting down" or "collapse" of the wave function to yield a relatively precise value of a quantum observable. (Note that "collapse" is a lay term and is not a part of all quantum interpretations.)

And yes, there is a sense in which a measurement entangles a quantum system with the macroscopic measuring device.

But unfortunately, none of that actually "explains" anything. If I measure entangled particle A, how does that explain how or why its distant partner B takes on a specific value? And if I measure the position of particle A, how does that explain that A's position becomes completely uncertain? Your explanation doesn't really give us anything specific.

Keep in mind: the Heisenberg Uncertainty Relations are mathematical formulae that give very specific descriptions of quantum observables. The English interpretation is derived from the mathematical, not the other way around.

Cheers.
 
Thank you! What I am trying to grasp, I guess, is where exactly the main source of all "mystery" or unexplainable behaviour connected to the "narrowing" by the measurement is. If a measured electron gets entangled with the measurement device upon measurement (even if we can't explain really what entaglement is or how it works etc), and upon that event "narrows" or get a more precis location, why would there for example be a need to include the need of a "conscious observation" or a many-worlds interpretation, as I have understood are some popular interpretations. Or is the mystery of the measurement problem in itself really the mystery of entaglement?

I get your point that its all translations of the mathematics into English, but how would you try to explain the main mystery in english? Why is the waveform collapse a mystery? Or is it?
 
I suggest a couple of books to start with:
- "Sneaking a Look at God's Cards"
- "Quantum Physics: What Everybody Needs To Know"
 
Moderator's note: Thread moved to the QM interpretations forum based on subject matter.
 
StevieTNZ said:
I suggest a couple of books to start with:
- "Sneaking a Look at God's Cards"
- "Quantum Physics: What Everybody Needs To Know"
Ok, thanks for these tips, will check then out!
 

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