Waves traveling in all directions

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter member 529879
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Waves
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the propagation of waves in various media, particularly why waves, such as sound waves, travel in all directions rather than solely in the direction of the source's motion. Participants explore concepts from field theory, the Huygens-Fresnel principle, and the behavior of particles in wave propagation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why waves travel in all directions when an object vibrates, suggesting that sound waves should only propagate in the direction of the vibration.
  • Another participant references the Huygens-Fresnel principle, indicating that disturbances in a medium or field propagate outward in all directions if capable of doing so.
  • A participant explains that in sound waves, air molecules can impact each other at various angles, transferring energy and momentum outward, while electromagnetic waves require different considerations.
  • Concerns are raised about the animation of longitudinal waves, with some participants questioning why such waves would propagate outward in all directions, suggesting that adjacent particles might remain unaffected.
  • It is noted that particles are rarely perfectly aligned, leading to off-center collisions that transfer energy and momentum in new directions, contributing to the outward propagation of waves.
  • One participant argues that typical sound wavelengths involve numerous molecules across wave peaks, resulting in regions of higher pressure that push outward in all directions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons for the omnidirectional propagation of waves. Multiple competing views and interpretations of wave behavior remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in understanding wave propagation based on the size of oscillators relative to wavelength, and the complexity of particle interactions in a medium.

member 529879
I'm confused about why waves travel in all directions. If an object such as a string is vibrating it is pushing air around it back in forth which creates sound waves. But why do they not only travel in the direction that the string is vibrating in?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
In a field theory, its propagation equations tells you how the field propagates, and the propagation can be in diferent directions than the source direction of motion.

For example, a charged particle moving in the X axis will create a magnetic field outside the X axis. In this case the Maxwell equations (and the solution for this case), would show the magnetic field at every point of the space.
 
In something such as a sound wave it is easy to understand. The air is made up of molecules and atoms. These can impact each other at many different angles and over time transfer the energy/momentum of the string's motion outwards in all directions. However, this does not work for something like an electromagnetic wave. In that case you need to look at the huygens-fresnel principle, linked above, which applies to all kinds of waves.

Basically the principle boils down to the fact that a disturbance in a medium or field would rather propagate outwards in all directions if it capable of doing so. If we had an infinitely small. point-like oscillator, this would indeed be the case, and you'd get a perfectly spherical wavefront. But with real, extended oscillators, such as a vibrating string, the disturbances from different parts of the medium/field interfere with each other and prevent themselves from spreading out. On the boundaries of the oscillator (and resulting disturbance), the disturbance can indeed spread outwards since it lacks something to interfere with.

The Huygens-Fresnel principle describes all of this by taking a wavefront (the disturbance) and modeling it as a sum of an infinite amount of 'wavelets', which are waves generated by a point oscillator. The interference of all these wavelets gives you the resulting wavefront.

Your original question, which I take to be "why does it spread out in the first place", is mostly just an observed fact. When the oscillator is very small compared to the wavelength of the oscillation, the resulting wave spreads out much better than when the oscillator is very large compared to the wavelength of the oscillation. In other words, the smaller the oscillator is compared to the wavelength of the oscillation, the more closely the oscillator approximates a point-like source. This is one reason why directional antennas have to be a certain minimum size in order to work correctly.
 
Last edited:
http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/feschools/waves/wavetypes2.php

If you scroll down a bit on the website I linked above, there is an animation of a longitudinal wave. I don't see why a wave like this would have to propagate outwards in every direction. If you had a row of particles next to the one in the animation I would think it would remain unaffected by the moving particles in the animation.
 
Scheuerf said:
http://www.acoustics.salford.ac.uk/feschools/waves/wavetypes2.php

If you scroll down a bit on the website I linked above, there is an animation of a longitudinal wave. I don't see why a wave like this would have to propagate outwards in every direction. If you had a row of particles next to the one in the animation I would think it would remain unaffected by the moving particles in the animation.

Particles are never lined up so perfectly, so you'll always have some collisions that are off-center, transferring energy and momentum in a new direction.
 
Scheuerf said:
If you scroll down a bit on the website I linked above, there is an animation of a longitudinal wave. I don't see why a wave like this would have to propagate outwards in every direction. If you had a row of particles next to the one in the animation I would think it would remain unaffected by the moving particles in the animation.

That animation is misleading for a sound wave. Typical sound wavelengths are around one meter or thereabouts, so there is an enormous number of molecules spread across each individual wave peak. Thus, the peak is not a single orderly row of molecules moving a few molecular diameters to the right and bumping into the next row - it is a entire region of higher air pressure, and of course a region of higher air pressure pushes out in all directions.

A.T. has already referred you to the Huygens-Frensnel principle; after reviewing that you might try googling for "phase array radar" to see what it takes to create a wave that really does propagate in one direction.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K