We'll have lunch together soon - how to behave?

[TheStatutoryApe]

Talking to Chicks 101:

Be yourself. Say what you please. Be Sincere (key concept: Sincerity. See glossary for details.).

End of Unit.

Note: For Telling Chicks What They Want to Hear see How to Get Laid 101, lectured by Prof. DanP.

I have been thinking about the whole thing the last couple of days and wanted to write about that. I don't mean to be melodramatic or something, but upon contemplation I feel like I am making a complete fool of myself.

Good. It is good to be and feel a fool sometimes. If you did not feel like a fool I would fear that you are taking yourself too seriously.

 

[powerflow]

Thanks again for your answers!

Sorry, guys, don't mean to be whiny again, but you make it sound so easy.

And no, I'm not saying to take every opportunity to the bedroom, but to flirt around a lot, fail, and try again.

Establish physical contact - holding hands, gentle backrub, etc, but back away if she doesn't want it.

One could also engage other women socially

I just don't see where I shall engage with other women socially and where I shall take the confidence for gentle backrubs etc. I mean in my Physics department, there is nobody I want to date.

I am happy that I have an opportunity to meet interesting people from different subjects occasionally (on regular presentations) and that's where I met her. I think I lack the connections, the solial events, etc. to meet nice women and to take every opportunity to flirt around a lot, fail, and try again. That's why I was double happy and hopeful to to meet a nice girl who at least went on one cafeteria date with me. Neediness? Apparently. But since first term when I met my first girlfriend and entered a short-lived relationship with her I haven't had one date (thats in more than two years). When I was in summer school I met a nice girl and I suggested we go buying groceries together (everyone had to do that, it was a nice walk, couple of kilometers, would have been a nice talk), she refused. When at my university I liked a girl from my department (we had couple of opportunities to chat), I felt quite clearly that while at the beginning she was somewhat curious (at least not totally indifferent), she lost that glimpse of interest over time. I really don't know what it is. I do have some 'friends' (more like co-students) but am not close enough to somebody to ask what is so weird about me. Also, when I want something for university, I have no trouble at all going to the authorities, tutors, lecturers, whatever, getting what I want (information, material, reports about old examns, old lab reports, material for studies). In these manners, I know how to behave, what to say, how to be cunning. But I cannot do the same thing with girls. This is, however, what I want, because I feel weary of being alone and doing everything on my own all the time.

It also has to do with my upbringing. My parents always encouraged me to be bold (getting what I want etc.) in academics but did quite the opposite with girls. They thought girls were bothersome when it comes to studies and they were always strongly against dating. When I came to them with girl issues (when I was a little bit younger) they basically brainwashed me. It's really true, they were fiercely against dating. So what happened is I increasingly kept to myself in these matters. However, not once in my life I had a reasonable father son conversation about women, dating, etc. That's probably where it all stems from.

They might have been wrong about, I don't know, school days. But not changing their mind at university (esp. in the early stages, like when I had my first girlfriend) implied that I was supposed to develop into some obedient sexless studying machine. I refused by starting to develop thoughts of my own. However it is a totally different game if have total moral support (like in matters of studying) or the opposite thereof (in emotional questions).

I might be joking I am a 100% theoretician. Theorizing about Physics with the computer, theorizing about emotions and human needs on the internet with other theoreticians. But to me, it's not really funny, it's not what I want to be (well, in Physics yes, in life, not at all).

Maybe in my country (in Europe), it's a different mentality. You don't just walk into the cafeteria, sit next to a bunch of pretty girls and have a date by the end of the meal. Even the charming good looking guys don't do that. In the bus it rarely or never happens that a guy just starts talking to an unfamiliar but cute girl and they have a nice conversation. I don't remember ever having observed the Trolley Song coming to life in a real tram or bus. It just doesn't work this way. And it's hard for me to get out on a Saturday evening alone and walk into some random café and hope to meet someone nice. I don't know but it appears I am missing something, it appears that there is something everyone understands but I don't.

Sorry for the epic narrative ;-)

 

[cronxeh]

Sorry, guys, don't mean to be whiny again, but you make it sound so easy.

Dude, that is the difference between boys and men. Men jump out of airplanes and leap into the unknown, they take action, and even if they are wrong, they make history. They don't sit and wait for their mother's approval like a boy would, they don't sit there waiting for their girlfriends approval 'umm.. may I kiss you?' NO. They sense the moment is right and they go for it. They want to hold her hand - they GO FOR IT. If you don't take a leap into the unknown you are a rational, scared, wimp.

Thats why I told you - she is not the one, you won't ever 'bag' her. You will practice with her, and if she has any slight amount of interest in you this might grow into a full blown relationship, but most likely it won't. Your primary objective is to find your cojones in the bottom of that dark pit you call your manhood

Maybe in my country (in Europe), it's a different mentality. You don't just walk into the cafeteria, sit next to a bunch of pretty girls and have a date by the end of the meal. Even the charming good looking guys don't do that. In the bus it rarely or never happens that a guy just starts talking to an unfamiliar but cute girl and they have a nice conversation.

What country are you from? Seems I could enjoy a nice vacation over there, among the beta males of this world. If you want to get ahead in life you need to stand apart from the rest of the herd, be above it, but not looking down on them as snottiness is annoying in itself.

There is nothing wrong with sitting next to bunch of girls in a cafe, taking off your sunglasses, and with a genuine smile (not Joker kind of grin), waiting for the silent moment to announce yourself: 'hey girls, have you heard a joke about a little boy, a Rabbi, and a Priest??'

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Sorry, guys, don't mean to be whiny again, but you make it sound so easy.

I had the same trouble. I was raised by mostly divorced women who taught me, more or less, that men are jerks and I need to be the perfect Mr. Niceguy to any and all women. This quickly led me to wonder why females all rejected me at every turn no matter how sweet and supplicating I was. When you are brainwashed into being the perfect niceguy the first thing you need to learn is that you are trying too hard. The 'you make it sound so easy' issue resolves itself from there.

I just don't see where I shall engage with other women socially and where I shall take the confidence for gentle backrubs etc.

Just get used to talking to attractive females as if they were any other person (since, really, they are just any other person) then try physical contact. This does not require back rubs. Get a feel for if she is comfortable with you being in her space. Brush against her (preferably not any erogenous zones to start). Casually touch her on the shoulder, or some other innocuous area, while talking to her or when you approach her. You will quickly and easily be able to tell if she is comfortable with such contact. There is also the 'Hug Test'. If a female is comfortable with you she will hug you 'hello' and/or 'goodbye'. The manner in which she hugs you though is important. If she leans in and touches shoulders then she is only moderately comfortable with you. If she makes fuller bodily contact while hugging you then she is very comfortable with you and is possibly attracted to you.

I do have some 'friends' (more like co-students) but am not close enough to somebody to ask what is so weird about me.

Talk to them. Is your 'love life' really anything so very secret and revealing? Remember not to take yourself too seriously! Everyone has had such issues at some point. You may feel more comfortable here since this is more or less anonymous but you see how many people are willing to talk about these things as if its no big deal. People in real life are the same. Everyone has had girl/guy troubles and they are more than willing to discuss such issues. Keep it light, don't pour your soul out, and don't take yourself too seriously and you will find a wealth of advice without the embarrassment and ridicule you may feel you will incur. Girl and guy talk both are full of discussions of the opposite (or same) sex.

Maybe in my country (in Europe), it's a different mentality. You don't just walk into the cafeteria, sit next to a bunch of pretty girls and have a date by the end of the meal. Even the charming good looking guys don't do that. In the bus it rarely or never happens that a guy just starts talking to an unfamiliar but cute girl and they have a nice conversation. I don't remember ever having observed the Trolley Song coming to life in a real tram or bus. It just doesn't work this way. And it's hard for me to get out on a Saturday evening alone and walk into some random café and hope to meet someone nice. I don't know but it appears I am missing something, it appears that there is something everyone understands but I don't.

I understand not having the sort of feel for just talking to random ladies you do not know. But know that it does, in fact, work. I have seen it. It seems ridiculous but somehow works out, I do not know how sometimes myself.

I actually had a lady at a bus stop approach me and start talking to me. We were both on the same bus frequently. The next time I saw her she walked right up to me and started talking to me again like we were old pals. That day I asked her for her phone number. We went on a few dates. I don't live in Europe but I can not imagine it is really so different there.

 

[Mentallic]

However, not once in my life I had a reasonable father son conversation about women, dating, etc. That's probably where it all stems from.

My only ever conversation with my parents about girls was them approaching me and starting and ending with:
"You need to be careful, you're too young to have children... no, I'm being serious!"
A few days later they approached my girlfriend in a similar way.

Yep... awkward

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't depend on what your parents think about it. It really depends on you and your personality towards the subject. I've seen two brothers pretty much the same age that were TOTALLY different in this way. One guy was the nice and pleasant one, and the other was the opposite. You can imagine who had more luck with the ladies.

 

[powerflow]

Thanks, esp. cronxeh. You basically quoted this:

Il vient toujours un temps où il faut choisir entre la contemplation et l'action. Cela s'appelle devenir un homme.

This summer I have made a stand because I wanted to move away for my master. We had as fierce a row of conversations as ever and they talked me out of it. Without even inquiring all the details (about the fact whether I could or could not afford studying in another university- this depends e.g. on my scholarship which in that case would have been recomputed), they brainwashed me again and I did not apply. Now it's too late, I could at best hope for mercy to have my application looked at. And I would take at least another week to actually make this application. I know now what went wrong. Instead of saying "I want to do that" I asked "Can I do that" and the answer was (since prep school and forever) no. That would have been a 1000 times more important than anything else but I screwed up. If I even screwed this up I cannot imagine how I am supposed to make decisions of my own, take actions of my own. All I can do is write the problem down and discuss it or have it discussed but I simply can't take a chance and pull my decision through. I am afraid that I might be wrong. I really can't stand this. I sometimes (like now) want to explode. But after a couple of days this wanes and I return to my static life. I always try, then we have a conversation, I get brainwashed and eventually I give up. I hate it and it makes me crazy at times. I never seem to penetrate so some action because I am not sure. I don't really know whether I can afford studying elsewhere. Instead of supporting me and doing the calculations together my family talks me into leaving the idea. They don't seem to give a **** that already three years ago I wanted out. Now I'll have my bachelor thesis handed in on monday and if not now, I'll never manage to change something. But all of the deadlines to basically any university in my country were June 15th. I feel my ****ing head is exploding while I know that I now need to finish my thesis and get prepared for an examn on friday. cronxeh at the beginning of the thread I thought you were jerking around but in fact you put it the most clearly. However I hate that I have no one in my familiy to talk to. Girls seem just a side effect but the underlying problem is that I am too hesitant and can't seem to push what I want.

It makes me feel so ****ed. And it's basically what other people have been telling me. I have a great scholarship in my country and excellent grades, just no parents to support me (they simply have no money, that's partly why they are so timid I'll screw up). So I never now what happens if I go to another university, whether I'll manage financially, etc. But I just want to be gone! I never loved this city, I have no serious friends here, no relationship. The only thing I have here is that my prof wants to put my results into his paper so if I put in some more work in my bachelor results, my name will be on a paper. That's the only thing of some value that I have in this city I feel.

I feel disgusted. Why actually talking about this again? I've had this thread before: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=408333 This lunch thread started out as one thing but ended EXACTLY like the other thread:

Noone can tell you that you will be OK, that you will have no financial issues and so on. Some ppl will be, others will not. But you don't need our opinions to be honest. You have to decide for yourself if getting away from what appears to be a family with an oppressive mentality worth the risks. Usually it does.

Sorry for the language.

 

[powerflow]

It's always the same story. I've been in this situation before. Back then they talked me out of it and additionally I got scared that time for the bachelor thesis was insufficient. Back then, I've lost days of such contemplation in which I was rather slow or idle with my work. This got me scared. Now it's the same thing.

I don't know why this is happening to me. Most of my fellows have 'normal' parents for whom it is normal that their children move out for university, that they date and have a normal life. I always wanted this but ended up sitting in my room doing science and stuff with my computer. There are many things to be proud of, many good achievements. My good work at school won me a prize and a scholarship. I've had excellent grades and was able to keep the scholarship. I've met the girl we're talking about because of that scholarship. And now I have it and it seems I don't use it. I would require a miracle. The people at the university I am thinking about would need to be merciful for an application delayed by more than two weeks. Additionally, I would need to have the courage to actually push this application - without even knowing if a) it will work and b) I can afford the whole thing at all. Then I would need to find out whether my scholarship would be elevated if I went to that city: if not, I can probably forget it (financially). Then I would need to apply for a living place there. A fellow of mine is going there, he would probably help me.

What I am talking about is a program in theoretical and mathematical physics. It's probably not the very best program (that would be Munich), but is really interesting and definitely more interesting than at my university. It's the best compromise (financially) and really seems a good program.It also wouldn't be too far away if I wanted to return in the winter break and do some work on the paper. I have made some research on mathematical physics programmes at that earlier 'stand' I made so I am not totally clueless about where it would be a good idea to study.

Anyway, thanks to all who followed the thread! Sorry for the language in the last two posts. Please keep this thread alive if you feel you have something to say.

 

[cronxeh]

Don't talk a lot, don't tell her everything about you, remain a mystery. Work on your pauses in speech at the right times. Be gentle with your touch, almost like a whisper, look her in the eyes, if she starts feeling uncomfortable - smile and look away. Most important point to remember is to be the man. Make the decisions, ask for her input.

You know what 'command and control' means? You are in command, she is in control. Your objective here is to scoff away her social defenses and to get to know the real woman underneath all that bitchy attitude she will put on. Get her to tell you something real about her, something personal but don't go about it like a friend would. Make sure she feels your intentions with her, not just hears them. By flirting/physical touch you are making her feel that you are a man, and not her brother or her friend.

Edit: holy crap you are leaking out inner thoughts and fears. Put a cap on it. Stop telling everyone everything about you, leave something a mystery.

Watch this video. It will change your life. 12 minutes is not bad, but this guy is a bit too much of a spaz, and he is short. I dare you to do better.

Oh and finally, I want you nerds to succeed so this civilization does not turn into Idiocracy.

 

[powerflow]

I dare you to do better.

This guy is a genius and probably has years of practice. There are some good ideals, however. The subtle stroking and touching could be tried. I'd probably be timid and more than careful but I might try.

BTW, very important question: shall we sit face to face or shall I try to take a seat next to her?

What does he mean by push and pull? Is pull supposed to be something like getting her to do something (like going over there and sitting down there)? And does push mean challenge, dare?

He openly told her he likes her. Can I do that too? Probably only towards the end right?

He simply gave her his phone! He didn't ask her number but gave her the phone. That's kind of bold and unpolite but it worked.

He kissed her after whispering in her ear. I wouldn't dare because I can't read body language that easily...

Anyway, yeah, nice video, I wish I could do that too.

 

[pongo38]

Powerflow said "E.g. I am into art, we might see an exhibition together (I hate going alone)". I notice that, just as you cannot hold someone's eye to eye gaze for more than a few seconds, people cannot confront truths comfortably head on, and frequently resort to things like a joint visit to an art gallery to promote discussion of relationships indirectly. I think Powerflow will find a polite way of saying anything if only the meeting can be made to happen. Phone calls and letters are less good because body language clues are invisible. Good luck Powerflow, but there are no short cuts to experience, and I hope that if it goes well, you will manage the first quarrel amiably, and remain friends.

 

[cronxeh]

dont pay attention to terminology. Essentially he rewards positive behavior, and minimizes any negative attitude she might exhibit. the more you talk and carry yourself like a man, the less negative behavior she will show. a man will steal a kiss just like that, without holding her down or intimidation. he simply reaps that kiss, and entire seduction took 2 mins after he earned her trust, isolated her, made her comfortable, and moved into her personal space. See how she did not lean back from him when he leaned in? She was interested and ready for that sharing of personal space which is under 1 foot.

if a friend did this he would be slapped! Because he wouldve lied and tricked her to get in that personal space. Bottom line is. Be clear with your intentions, gentle, honest and daring. A man.

 

[powerflow]

Be clear with your intentions, gentle, honest and daring. A man.

Serious question: do you think I can do that like that? From nerd to man just like that?
Should I practice?
Should I try going to the cafeteria the like three days before the date and sit down next to a beautiful woman and try starting a conversation? Or something like that?

 

[lisab]

Serious question: do you think I can do that like that? From nerd to man just like that?
Should I practice?
Should I try going to the cafeteria the like three days before the date and sit down next to a beautiful woman and try starting a conversation? Or something like that?

While you should never try to be a fake, developing confidence is a very good idea. Practice makes perfect, so yes, try starting a conversation with a woman. If it goes poorly, don't despair; you're still learning and it will take some practice.

 

[cronxeh]

i do believe I've already told you to find someone hotter and makeout somewhere where this girl is likely to pass you two by. Make her jealous, enjoy multiple options. if you have to ask me if you can be a man, really? Read what i posted already.

Final point. Have no fear of success, have no fear of failure, pain, joy, or shame. Be a man.. Go out there and do it, nobody else can do it for you.

 

[powerflow]

cronxeh, sorry for being so stubborn, but another question, but what kind of women are we actually talking about?

You, as well as the video, suggest subtle physical contact etc. But I am absolutely not dating the woman in the video. The girl is a future academic and she's devoted to her subject, so am I. She's more serious than the girl in the video. I don't think such a simple pickup would ever work on her. It might be just my imagination because all women are the same when it comes to conquest, but I think conversations with 'my' girl are more on an intellectual level and that it would be inappropriate to give her these subtle touches (unless they are very very subtle, unlike in the video). 'My' girl is not a semi-slut kissed while shopping with her fancy handbag. I don't really think it's the same type of women. So don't you think a more reserved approach would be appropriate?

However, I don't doubt the things you said about taking actions and being a man at all.

 

[cronxeh]

cronxeh, sorry for being so stubborn, but another question, but what kind of women are we actually talking about?

You, as well as the video, suggest subtle physical contact etc. But I am absolutely not dating the woman in the video. The girl is a future academic and she's devoted to her subject, so am I. She's more serious than the girl in the video. I don't think such a simple pickup would ever work on her. It might be just my imagination because all women are the same when it comes to conquest, but I think conversations with 'my' girl are more on an intellectual level and that it would be inappropriate to give her these subtle touches (unless they are very very subtle, unlike in the video). 'My' girl is not a semi-slut kissed while shopping with her fancy handbag. I don't really think it's the same type of women. So don't you think a more reserved approach would be appropriate?

However, I don't doubt the things you said about taking actions and being a man at all.

I went to a private university where there were 18% females. I can tell you that these girls are very stressed from all the studies, and need a really good 'release' if you catch my drift. That being said, get a nerd horny and alone and she will go ape poop crazy on you. I mean you will be limping for days after that.

cronxeh, sorry for being so stubborn, but another question, but what kind of women are we actually talking about?

The ones that you want. If you are approaching them, then you want them right? If not then you are wasting theirs and ultimately far worse, your time. Do not do that. Do not waste time chasing girls you have no actual interest in, its a very low thing to do.

For the love of all that is awesome, do NOT be just like any other nerd out there - timid, scared, insecure and 'reserved'. You will never get what you want, you might get a pity/opportunity lay and maybe even one of those pathetic relationships that last because you are sooo much aliikeeee. But you don't want that. Set higher standards for yourself, and go for the ones you really really want. Good luck.

Some philosophy to ponder over. Think of yourself as the head of the household. How will your wife/girlfriend/significant other look up to you if you are a lying, cheating, abusive little person who is not even interested in her in the first place?? Be the change you want to see in the world, be better, moral, upright, and fearless.

 

[DanP]

This guy is a genius and probably has years of practice. There are some good ideals, however. The subtle stroking and touching could be tried. I'd probably be timid and more than careful but I might try.

BTW, very important question: shall we sit face to face or shall I try to take a seat next to her?

What does he mean by push and pull? Is pull supposed to be something like getting her to do something (like going over there and sitting down there)? And does push mean challenge, dare?

He openly told her he likes her. Can I do that too? Probably only towards the end right?

He simply gave her his phone! He didn't ask her number but gave her the phone. That's kind of bold and unpolite but it worked.

He kissed her after whispering in her ear. I wouldn't dare because I can't read body language that easily...

Anyway, yeah, nice video, I wish I could do that too.

Man, there are no set in stone rules. Begin simple, the only thing to keep in mind is that you
shouldn't show more affection than it's shown to you. Dont be desperate, reciprocate appropriately.

In rest Id pretty much say that this discussion is useless. Go out and make your own game.
Enjoy making a "fool" out of yourself, we all did it.

 

[pongo38]

I am somewhat dysfunctional, and come from a somewhat dysfunctional family. And so does everyone reading this, and the whole world, actually. Parts of me function well, especially the bits that get a lot of practice. Same with my family, there are well-functioning aspects. True of all you reading this, and for the whole world, actually. Moral of this story is to be fearless, and try things out, and learn from the observation of the outcome. You will get hurt, just as I have, and everyone reading this...

 

[nucleargirl]

awww! the post starter is so sweet! awww! don't worry! just be yourself! and if you tow get along and she likes you for you, then she will be happy to go on a out of university date with you! But you should not be shy about asking her! - one of you has to make the first move! but don't ask her if she is really busy- like during exams, then she might say no cos she's busy and you might feel rejected for no good reason! Good luck!

 

[nucleargirl]

Man, there are no set in stone rules. Begin simple, the only thing to keep in mind is that you
shouldn't show more affection than it's shown to you. Dont be desperate, reciprocate appropriately.

I totally disagree! that's rubbish! if everyone behaved this way, then the world would be really unfriendly!

 

[nucleargirl]

you should do what you feel in your heart! BUT, be observant of how the other person responds! if you are super nice to her and she keeps ignoring you, then you can see that she's not feeling the same way as you, so you should not keep pushing her to feel the same way, because people can't be changed like that.

 

[nucleargirl]

oh and if its one of your first dates, then sit face to face! cos then you can see each other better! and it is more comfortable cos you don't have to keep turning your head to look at each other. it also depends on where you are of course- if you are in a house watching tv then you would sit next to each other on a sofa! but if its been a few dates and you are both comfortable with each other and you are in like a bar with those long sofas, or in a cinema, then you sit next to her and then you can put your arm around her!

 

[nucleargirl]

:( I feel a bit saddened reading some of these posts. You guys make girls sound like horrible bitchy horny objects to be conqurered! do all guys think like this? I don't think so!

I think everyone should just be themselves and do what makes them happy, you are bound to find someone who likes you for who you are! and if you are putting on an act to get the girl you want, then it won't last because you can't act for the rest of your life! and if you do, then it will mess you up psychologically!

There are girls of all kinds in the world, just get yourself out there, meet new people, and soon you will find a perfect female equivalent/match for you!

 

[nucleargirl]

and most importantly, be open minded about her! all too often people only see what they want to see and what is not actually there - its the most basic thing about science! Discover! not assume you know everything! So if guys keep thinking all girls are horrible/desperate/bitchy/brainless and need a man to control them etc... then that's the only girls you will meet because that's how you will see them, even if they are not like that!

 

[anubis01]

nucleargirl could you quote the people you're responding to next time its really hard to follow.

 

[nucleargirl]

nucleargirl could you quote the people you're responding to next time its really hard to follow.

I know! I'm really sorry! I tried! but I can't figure out how to! lol!
I think I might have got the hang of it now, I will do so in future :)

 

[Astronuc]

I know! I'm really sorry! I tried! but I can't figure out how to! lol!
I think I might have got the hang of it now, I will do so in future :)

Click on [PLAIN]https://www.physicsforums.com/Prime/buttons/quote.gif in/under the post to which one is responding.

It's right next to [PLAIN]https://www.physicsforums.com/Prime/buttons/edit.gif, which is how one edits one's post.

 

[nucleargirl]

Click on [PLAIN]https://www.physicsforums.com/Prime/buttons/quote.gif in/under the post to which one is responding.

It's right next to [PLAIN]https://www.physicsforums.com/Prime/buttons/edit.gif, which is how one edits one's post.

Thanks Astro! I have finally figured it out! but still can't do youtube links in my posts tho :p

 

[cronxeh]

oi! that's uncalled for! I'm not convinced you are suited to work in the healthcare industry with an attitude like that! You shoulding be trying to help people not put them down! it ain't easy being a 17 year old you know!

I am referring to the banned users who have their usernames crossed out. I think some come back pretending to be a girl but sooner or later get banned again

 

[lisab]

Thanks Astro! I have finally figured it out! but still can't do youtube links in my posts tho :p

OK, youtube posts: first find the video on youtube. Copy the last part of the youtube address, the part after the = sign. Then come back to PF and start your post. See the TV button circled in red here...

Click that.

Paste that part of the youtube address between the tags, and you're set.

I now return you to "We'll have lunch together soon - how to behave?" already in progress.