What are reliable references for the theorem on integral extensions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a theorem concerning integral extensions in the context of integral domains and Dedekind domains. Participants explore the implications of the theorem, its proof, and seek reliable references for it or related theorems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a theorem regarding the intersection of R[x] with the fraction field K of an integral domain R, suggesting it leads to conclusions about Dedekind domains being integrally closed.
  • Another participant points out that the theorem implies any integral domain is integrally closed, which contradicts known counterexamples.
  • Several participants discuss the conditions under which elements of K that are integral over R may or may not belong to R, questioning the validity of the initial proof.
  • There is acknowledgment of a mistake regarding the degree of elements in K and their relationship to R, with some participants correcting earlier assertions.
  • A later reply suggests that additional assumptions might make the theorem valid, though this would render it less interesting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the theorem and its implications, with some acknowledging errors in reasoning while others challenge the conclusions drawn. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the theorem's correctness.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the initial proof and the need for careful consideration of assumptions, particularly regarding the degree of elements and the nature of integral domains.

coquelicot
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I think I have proved the following theorem:

"If R is an integral domain, x is integral of degree n over R, and K is the fraction field of R, then the intersection of R[x] with K is included in 1/n R[X] (the set of elements r/n where r belongs to R). Furthermore, if R is Dedekind, then this intersection is R."

My simple proof can be found here:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Bensimhoun-1.lemma_in_Galois_Theory-2.RxInterQuotR-3.conjugates_of_polynomial.pdf (pp. 3--5).

My question is: Where can I found reliable references to this theorem, or at least reliable references to another theorem implying it ?

Thx.
 
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The statement about Dedekind domains seems to be the same as saying that Dedekind domains are integrally closed. Chapter 9 of Atiyah-MacDonald should be relevant here.
 
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So let's take an integral domain ##R## and take any ##\theta\in K## which is integral over ##R##. Since ##\theta\in K##, it follows that ##n=1##. So your theorem proves that

[tex]R[\theta]\cap K\subseteq R[/tex]

So your theorem implies that any integral domain is integrally closed. There are counterexamples to that, so where did I go wrong?
 
If x belongs to K and is integral over R, then obviously x belongs to R. so, the intersection of R[X] with R is R. In your statement, you infer from a particular case to the general case, and this is what is wrong.
 
coquelicot said:
If x belongs to K and is integral over R, then obviously x belongs to R.

Consider ##R= \mathbb{C}[t^2,t^3]##, then ##K = \mathbb{C}(t)##. But then ##t\in K## is integral over ##R## since it's the root of

[tex]X^2 - t^2 = 0[/tex]

but ##t## is not in ##R##.
 
Sorry, you are right about the fact that an element of K integral over R needs not belong to R. In fact, the problem in your counterexample above is that you assert that n=1, which is, of course wrong unless x belong to R.
 
coquelicot said:
Sorry, you are right about the fact that an element of K integral over R needs not belong to R. In fact, the problem in your counterexample above is that you assert that n=1, which is, of course wrong unless x belong to R.

I just take an arbitrary element ##\theta## in ##K\setminus R## that is integral over ##R##. My previous post shows that such situation exist.
Then since ##\theta\in K##, it follows that ##n=1## (since your definition of ##n## was the degree of ##\theta## over ##K##). Why is this wrong?
 
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You are, once more right. I have understood my mistake, and that my theorem is false. Thank you so many for your help.
 
coquelicot said:
You are, once more right. I have understood my mistake, and that my theorem is false. Thank you so many for your help.

You did prove something. So I think that you should carefully check the proof and see where your error lies. Maybe with some additional assumptions, it might still work?
 
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Of course, if it is supposed that the minimal polynomial of theta is also monic with coefficients in R, this works. But this makes the theorem much more uninteresting.
 

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