What Are Rosen Coordinates in Gravitational Wave Analysis?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature and transformation of Rosen coordinates in the context of gravitational wave analysis. Participants explore the relationship between Rosen coordinates and traditional Cartesian coordinates, as well as the differences between Rosen and Eisenstein-Rosen coordinates. The conversation includes technical aspects of metric tensors and coordinate transformations within the framework of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the definition and application of Rosen coordinates, particularly in relation to traditional Cartesian coordinates.
  • One participant provides a specific line element in Rosen coordinates and proposes a coordinate mapping to Cartesian coordinates, suggesting a transformation involving light-cone coordinates.
  • Another participant questions the uniqueness of Rosen coordinates and mentions potential drawbacks, such as the possibility of coordinate singularities.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between Rosen coordinates and Brinkmann coordinates, with some participants indicating a lack of familiarity with Brinkmann coordinates.
  • One participant asserts that transforming from Rosen coordinates to Minkowski coordinates is not feasible due to the nature of gravitational waves as curved spacetimes.
  • Another participant reiterates the transformation equations but notes that not all terms will align with Minkowski spacetime, indicating that some aspects of the metric will remain complex.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility and implications of transforming Rosen coordinates to Minkowski coordinates. There is no consensus on the correct mapping or the interpretation of Rosen coordinates, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of these coordinates and their transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the implications of coordinate transformations, particularly in the context of curved versus flat spacetimes. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the uniqueness and applicability of Rosen coordinates in gravitational wave analysis.

CoordinatesPLZ
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I see a number of gravitational wave analytic solutions with the metric given in terms of Rosen coordinates. I have no idea what these coordinates are. How do I perform a coordinate transformation from Rosen coordinates to traditional (t,x,y,z) Euclidean\Cartesian coordinates? Also, is there a difference between Rosen coordinates and Eisenstein-Rosen coordinates?

Thanks
CoordinatesPLZ
 
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A coordinate system for the description of gravitational plane waves:

ds2 = 2 du dv + gij(u) dyi dyj.

As opposed to Brinkmann coordinates for the same wave:

ds2 = H(u) du2 + 2 du dv + dx2 + dy2.

Here's a reference
that discusses both, and how to convert one to the other.
 
That doesn't directly answer my question. Also, I am not familiar with Brinkmann coordinates. If we suppose the line element in Rosen coordinates in flat space-time is:

ds2=2 du dv+dy12+dy22

Then we can deduce the possible coordinate mapping to Cartesian coordinates of

t = (u-v)/√2
x = y1
y = y2
z = (u+v)/√2,

Assuming a <-1,1,1,1> metric signature

Is this the correct mapping from Rosen coordinates to Cartesian coordinates?
 
CoordinatesPLZ said:
That doesn't directly answer my question.
Sorry. What IS your question? You say you want to know what Rosen coordinates "are", but that question has no answer. Coordinates in a curved spacetime do not always have a simple interpretation.

CoordinatesPLZ said:
Also, I am not familiar with Brinkmann coordinates.
If you're interested in gravitational waves, you should learn about Brinkmann coordinates. Rosen coordinates have several drawbacks. One: they are not unique. Two: they can develop coordinate singularities (caustics). That's why they are not generally used.

CoordinatesPLZ said:
If we suppose the line element in Rosen coordinates in flat space-time is:

ds2=2 du dv+dy12+dy22
That's one possibility. Here's another instance of a plane wave in Rosen coordinates that is also flat:

ds2 = 2 du dv + u2(dy12 + dy22)

CoordinatesPLZ said:
Then we can deduce the possible coordinate mapping to Cartesian coordinates of

t = (u-v)/√2
x = y1
y = y2
z = (u+v)/√2,

Assuming a <-1,1,1,1> metric signature

Is this the correct mapping from Rosen coordinates to Cartesian coordinates?
In a flat spacetime, (u, v, y1, y2) are called light-cone coordinates, and (t, x, y, z) are called Minkowski coordinates. The terms Euclidean and Cartesian do not apply!
 
My problem is I have a formula for the metric tensor in Rosen coordinates and I would like the metric tensor in Minkowski spacetime. To go from one to the other I need the coordinate mapping, thus, how do I transform the coordinates from Rosen coordinates to Minkowski Coordinates?
 
CoordinatesPLZ said:
My problem is I have a formula for the metric tensor in Rosen coordinates and I would like the metric tensor in Minkowski spacetime. To go from one to the other I need the coordinate mapping, thus, how do I transform the coordinates from Rosen coordinates to Minkowski Coordinates?
Can't be done. A gravitational wave is a curved spacetime, and Minkowski coordinates exist only in flat space. You can't turn a curved spacetime into a flat spacetime just by changing the coordinates. A gravitational wave is not just Minkowski space written in some weird set of coordinates.

You can certainly do the z = (u + v)/√2, t = (u - v)/√2 thing if you like, and that will make at least part of the metric look more familiar, but there will be terms left over.
 

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