What Are the Potential Uses of a Fractal Coil in Electronics?

[crockman1]

i came up with a fractal that may have an application in electronics but i don't know what it could be used for. picture a coil wrapped around a coil and so on. picture a small wire half the gauge of a larger wire in which the small wire is wrapped around and the product is coiled around a larger wire.

some questions:
what could this be used for?
what will happen when you solder the end of the larger wires to the beginning of the smaller wires in witch are wrapped around the larger ones from largest to smallest leaving the largest wire open on one side and the smallest wire open on the other side and run electricity through the thing?
could it be used as a fractal antenna?

 

[LotusEffect]

If you have a bunch of wires wrapped around in a funny way but with only one coil hooked up to the circuit, the thing will be a standard inductor. The other wires, depending on their magnetic permeability (probably low if it's copper) will serve as the core of the inductor. If the other wires are connected together but not to the global circuit, you will suffer induced current losses.

If you hook up one of the wire to a another circuit you get some sort of transformer.

In other words you get nothing interesting except a bunch of inductors with self and mutual inductance :P.

edit: Don't know about the antenna thing.

 

[crockman1]

cool ima try to upload a picture to explain how the thing is set up better. what's a global circuit?

 

[LotusEffect]

My english is not 100% perfect. But I meant the circuit to which you hook up your fractal coil :P. I said "global" because one could say there are extra circuits within the fractal coil itself if some wires are connected.

 

[crockman1]

the wires are connected in succession from largest to smallest, or smallest to largest.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I have a feeling that your design, as I see it in my imagination, may well produce large regions of field cancellation within it - which would affect its inductance.

There could be some interesting effects with signals of very short wavelength, however. I could imaging an interesting RF filter characteristic for such a 'coiled, coiled coil'.

 

[crockman1]

what does field cancellation mean? and what if you hook this thing up to a tesla coil or a spark plug? could this be used as a step up transformer? is a current induced in the direction of the output (being the end of third and smallest wire) in the third winding if it is coiled counterclockwise ?

 

[sophiecentaur]

If you take ten turns of wire and wind them clockwise around a tube, then take ten more turns, wound anticlockwise. The total inductance would be zero because the field from the first ten would cancel out the field from the next ten. It is sometimes referred to as bi-filar winding.

Without a suitable diagram of what you mean, I have no idea how it could constitute a transformer.

 

[crockman1]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43566332@N06/5526612685/sizes/z/in/photostream/

there's a picture of how the thing would be set up.
(EDIT: the wires would be coiled so that they are tight)

the primary would be the biggest wire the secondary would be something like half the gauge of the primary and the third winding would be the smallest gauge and about half the gauge of the secondary. so the secondary will be more winds than the primary and the third coil will have the most winds.

now if you take the third winding and coil it counterclockwise from the start of the secondary coil and turn the juice on will there be a current induced in the third coil in the direction of the output?

 

[crockman1]

can anyone answer this question?

 

[LotusEffect]

I don't see how this thing could be anything else than a standard inductor (with poor inductance because of the lack of ferrite core) with little parasite capacitance and non-neglectable induced current losses.

As for your last question, I can't say :P.

 

[crockman1]

bummer... i guess I am going to have to build the b!tch to find out... lol

 

[sophiecentaur]

can anyone answer this question?

You would first need to specify some actual dimensions. I believe there are some programs that calculate fields around some quite complex shapes but I can safely say that there is no 'formula' which will give you an answer.

 

[crockman1]

i just ordered the autodesk inventor trial ima try to construct a model then ill post the picture mayb thattl help then may b u guys will be able to tell