What are the properties required for spacetime to be a Lorentzian manifold?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties required for spacetime to be considered a Lorentzian manifold. Participants explore various characteristics such as orientability, connectedness, and Hausdorff conditions, while also addressing the broader context of different models of spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that spacetime is a Lorentzian manifold, while others suggest it can be modeled as such, indicating a distinction between mathematical abstraction and physical reality.
  • One participant notes the uncertainty surrounding whether spacetime is definitively a Lorentzian manifold, mentioning alternative models like Finsler and degenerate metrics, and emphasizing the need to differentiate between physical space-time and its mathematical representations.
  • There is a call for clarification on the conventional properties of Lorentzian manifolds, with participants expressing interest in specific characteristics that are typically associated with them.
  • References to literature and resources are provided, suggesting that further reading may enhance understanding of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether spacetime is definitively a Lorentzian manifold, with multiple competing views and models being discussed. The conversation remains unresolved regarding the exact properties required for spacetime to fit this classification.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on assumptions and applications when discussing the properties of spacetime, indicating that the discussion may be limited by varying interpretations of what constitutes a Lorentzian manifold.

mersecske
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I know that spacetime is a Lorentzian manifold,
but what kind of properties has to be required exactly?
for example orientable, connected, Haussdorff, ...
 
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It is not even sure that it is a Lorentzian manifold. Different physicists try different models. Lorentzian, Finsler, dgenerate metrics, metrics changing signatures, pure affine, multi-dimensional. You need to distinguish space and time of physics from their mathematical models.
The Lorentzian model is most popular and seems to work for weak field approximations and when you do not take into account quantum effects.
It is up to you which assumptions you choose - depending on applications that you may have in your mind.
 
mersecske said:
I know that spacetime is a Lorentzian manifold,

I would rephrase this to

Spacetime can be modeled by a Lorentzian manifold

A Lorentzian manifold is an abstraction that lives in our minds ( or in my case visits now and again), it can't be awarded the same ontological status as charge and mass, say.
 
Ok, but let's see the conventional Lorentzian manifold.
What are the conventional properties?
 
mersecske said:
Ok, but let's see the conventional Lorentzian manifold.
What are the conventional properties?

You may like to assume that it admits a http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sven-S._Porst&action=edit&redlink=1" .
 
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