What Are the Reactions to the Absurd Political Ad: 2030?

[nismaratwork]

I realize this is meant to be chilling, and maybe if you're so far down the rabbit hole of paranoid tea-party life it is. I found it laugh-out-loud funny, ESPECIALLY the end.

Oh, and while I can't wait to hear how it's not, that is one racist ad.

Enjoy the circus, ladies and gnetlemen, come-ah come-ah come-ah see what Karl Rove would wake up to in a cold sweat if he had a soul... :rofl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx7fNQcJAjs

Reviews? I give this low marks for production, high marks for ambition and sublimated racism, low marks for acting, but extremely high marks for trying to scare the pants off dim-middle of the country.

 

[apeiron]

Did you know China did make a semi-official documentary series a couple of years back on history's great civilisations and why they failed? (With the sub-text that we will learn and not repeat those mistakes.) That must be what inspired the spoof here.

 

[nismaratwork]

Did you know China did make a semi-official documentary series a couple of years back on history's great civilisations and why they failed? (With the sub-text that we will learn and not repeat those mistakes.) That must be what inspired the spoof here.

Must be, too bad it's not so much a spoof as a spin-off. The quote that keeps rattling around my mind is:

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." (Voltaire)

 

[lisab]

Yes, I've seen this before. Very effective in targeting those who love being afraid, are uninformed, and are xenophobic. Unfortunately I think that's a *lot* of people.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Funny, I considered starting a thread about this several times including earlier today.

"so-called stimulus programs"? Is that like so-called gravity? Fear Ye! Fear Ye! It is all a grand liberal conspiracy to ruin the country.

 

[nismaratwork]

I believe it Ivan, but of course if you started the thread it would be part of a left-wing plot to corrupt this site!

Better this way.

@Lisab: Xenophobic... definitely that.

OK, truth time: am I the only one who thought the speaker had a "future cigarette" instead of a mic for a few seconds?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The Chinese are loaning us money. How smart can they be?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I'm surprised at how little the iPad design changed.

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm surprised at how little the iPad design changed.

Apparantly in the future OLEDs never take off.

 

[Pengwuino]

Wait wait, I call ********.

How was that poor production values?? What kind of special effects do you see in your everyday political ad that makes this ad look crumby?

I do agree with the poor acting though. Why half those apparent students were still awake is absurd to me.

 

[nismaratwork]

Wait wait, I call ********.

How was that poor production values?? What kind of special effects do you see in your everyday political ad that makes this ad look crumby?

I do agree with the poor acting though. Why half those apparent students were still awake is absurd to me.

I think MIH just hit one, I'm not compring this to other political ads... they tend not to reach this far into lala-land.

beyond that, I've seen better in Star Trek (original) if you ignore the HD factor.

 

[rootX]

It is a real concern that China will beat the US one day. Chinese will find this ad most entertaining

 

[Pengwuino]

I think this ad was awesome. I was expecting a special forces team to swoop in from the sides only to meet a crew of ninjas carrying laser guns. I'm voting for whatever the hell they're telling me to vote for.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is a real concern that China will beat the US one day.

Why? They have three times as many people as we do. Isn't it logical that eventually they should have a larger GDP?

Interesting fact: At the turn of the century [1900], China had the second largest economy in the world.

 

[rootX]

Why? They have three times as many people as we do. Isn't it logical that eventually they should have a larger GDP?

Interesting fact: At the turn of the century [1900], China had the second largest economy in the world.

You can decide if it a concern or not but that doesn't change the reality:
1) China becoming economic superpower
2) With economic power, it also attains the world superpower status replacing the US (this is my expectation once it overtakes US economically)

China's global trade is set to surge past the US' by 2030, according to a report by PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12848449

 

[Ivan Seeking]

You can decide if it a concern or not but that doesn't change the reality:
1) China becoming economic superpower
2) With economic power, it also attains the world superpower status replacing the US (this is my expectation once it overtakes US economically)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12848449

What is your specific concern? Why does this worry you?

Personally, I don't want the Chinese people to be poor anymore.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have long been a fan of Alvin Toffler. In fact, the "electronic cottage" concept in his book, The Third Wave, gave me the idea for my business as it exists today. I realized he as right and we are there - the technology now exists to do what he discussed many years earlier. You might find his ideas about our near future interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWj-G-VZEQ

As for China, he thinks they will have their own problems to deal with.

China is trying to create a harmonious society. Socially China is close to [the] boiling point. Community protest is common. GDP growth cannot for long continue at present rates in China

http://www.openfuture.co.nz/toffler.html

 

[Gokul43201]

... once it overtakes US economically...

What metric do you use to make this determination?

 

[rootX]

What is your specific concern? Why does this worry you?

Personally, I don't want the Chinese people to be poor anymore.

Knowing that China's principles are quite different from those of current superpowers, my specific concern is uncertainty. This is concern if China overtakes US in aspects of military, world influence, and economy.

Once you have the strongest economy, military and world influence is only one step away.

 

[nismaratwork]

Knowing that China's principles are quite different from those of current superpowers, my specific concern is uncertainty. This is concern if China overtakes US in aspects of military, world influence, and economy.

Once you have the strongest economy, military and world influence is only one step away.

China may overtake a lot of things, but military isn't one of them, and we're both nuclear powers; no conventional war is going to happen there. Again, they have a population and massive food shortage issue to deal with, and who feeds them? We do. We can deal with economic collapse, but they'd starve.

China growing as an economy is good news, and likely to improve their principles.

Moreoever, I don't see a 2030 demonstration of, "now they work for us, hahahahaha," as being relevant, as right now they're the ones working rather hard. In time ,they'll catch up, but if you notice there is a point of equilibrium, then diminishing returns.

With such an enormous population, I'd be one scared gerantocracy, but then that would ruin the xenobophic ad. Personally, I'm ready for a William Gibson neuvo cyber-culture... our way of life is getting old, fast.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I do see WWIII in the conventional sense [perhaps with a nuclear component] as a real possibility. To me the most likely scenario is one where we - the US and China - are competing for resources - mainly, oil.

There is also an alarming ratio of men to women in the youth of China.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508/ns/world_news/

I tried to find a link but couldn't find one yet. As I understand it, historically, bad things happen to cultures when there is a gender imbalance favoring males. Namely, there is a bias towards war.

On the other hand, I suspect the great firewall of China will be about as effective as was the Great Wall of China. Given the internet [and other media], all bets are off. Information technology is clearly changing the world just as everyone hoped. What is worrisome is the rate at which it is happening. The changes in N. Africa have been dramatic and uncomfortably fast, to say the least. Hopeful in many ways, yes, but I am worried that we may suffer a period of intense instability, that could involve us as well as China, before a truly stable global community emerges. Already we may be seeing this in the ME/ N. Africa. My father-in-law thinks that WWIII may have already started.

 

[rootX]

China may overtake a lot of things, but military isn't one of them

I don't see why not? It does not have to do with anything but money.

I was reading this article recently that made US well worried:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12631357
(I noticed this is from 4 March 2011 but I also came across similar news article last year .. )

Again, they have a population and massive food shortage issue to deal with, and who feeds them? We do.

Just because US trades with China does not mean US is feeding China.

We can deal with economic collapse, but they'd starve.

No one can deal with economic collapse not even US.

 

[Bobbywhy]

Lines from the "Professor Ad.":

a. Enormous so-called stimulus spending
b. Massive changes to health care, and
c. Government takeover of private industries.

Now, those are exactly three crucial parts of China's successful anti-recession policy!

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The Chinese economy will be larger than the US economy by 2010. The Indian economy will be larger than the Chinese economy in 2030.

 

[Pengwuino]

I personally feel like the real issue is not that China may or may not one day become a military equal to the United States. The real issue is whether or not China becomes powerful enough to start making power grabs in the region in a way the United States would not be willing to prevent or retaliate for.

 

[Bobbywhy]

Oops! I forgot to cite my reference for my comment above in post #23:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/10/the-phenomenal-chinese-professor-ad/64982/

 

[Gokul43201]

The ad suggests that the US loses its dominance by turning towards socialism. Meanwhile, the new superpower is a communist state?

Talk about mixed messages!

 

[jobyts]

Here's the goldman sachs' prediction on the global economies.
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/ideas/brics/book/99-dreaming.pdf

Also, its worth reading the Warrren Buffet's famous sqanderville/thriftville parable.

http://relistr.com/real-estate/squanderville-versus-thriftville-by-warren-buffet.html

 

[nismaratwork]

The ad suggests that the US loses its dominance by turning towards socialism. Meanwhile, the new superpower is a communist state?

Talk about mixed messages!

I'm guessing that truth and accuracy were not the aims of the ad... I think the message was, "boooga boooga boooga! Be afraid!"

 

[rootX]

Lines from the "Professor Ad.":

a. Enormous so-called stimulus spending
b. Massive changes to health care, and
c. Government takeover of private industries.

Now, those are exactly three crucial parts of China's successful anti-recession policy!

The ad suggests that the US loses its dominance by turning towards socialism. Meanwhile, the new superpower is a communist state?

Talk about mixed messages!

Sure it is not well thought out but it says "civilizations fail when they turn their back on the principles that made them great". It is arguing that US is going against its principles not that government/stimulus are bad.

 

[nismaratwork]

Sure it is not well thought out but it says "civilizations fail when they turn their back on the principles that made them great". It is arguing that US is going against its principles not that government/stimulus are bad.

Yeah, we should never have given women the vote, or recognized anyone except land-owning white men as people.

I so miss a good romp with my African slaves, and smoking marijuana, both great principles and pasttimes of this great nation.

</sarcasm>

 

[rootX]

Yeah, we should never have given women the vote, or recognized anyone except land-owning white men as people.

I so miss a good romp with my African slaves, and smoking marijuana, both great principles and pasttimes of this great nation.

</sarcasm>

irrelevant.

 

[nismaratwork]

irrelevant.

How so? This appeal to some mystical set of principles and holy men who forged them is irrelvant... we live in the present and AFAIK we're still jamming those principles down any throat we can reach.

Really, we were true to racist and sexist principles far longer than not, so... forgive my cynicism in this regard.


Oh, and I doubt that the Chinese would be amused to be portrayed and cackling schemers gloating over the death of a fictional empire.

 

[Char. Limit]

Yeah, we should never have given women the vote, or recognized anyone except land-owning white men as people.

I so miss a good romp with my African slaves, and smoking marijuana, both great principles and pasttimes of this great nation.

</sarcasm>

Actually, I don't see that there's too much wrong with smoking marijuana. Studies have proven time and again that alcohol is far more hazardous to your health than marijuana is.

 

[rootX]

How so? ...

Bobbywhy and Gokul posted: "The ad suggests that the US loses its dominance by turning towards socialism".

I argued no it does not quoting turning its back towards its principles from the video.

What you are going towards is out of scope and has no relevance to above and it followed by even more irrelevant content.

 

[nismaratwork]

Actually, I don't see that there's too much wrong with smoking marijuana. Studies have proven time and again that alcohol is far more hazardous to your health than marijuana is.

Oh, I'm a fan myself on occasion, but it's not a principle we've stuck to, now is it?

 

[nismaratwork]

Bobbywhy and Gokul posted: "The ad suggests that the US loses its dominance by turning towards socialism".

I argued no it does not quoting turning its back towards its principles from the video.

What you are going towards is out of scope and has no relevance to above.

Wow, could you reference less of my post if you tried, and explain less how this is not relevant to the broad scope of the OP, with whom I'm close personal friends (jab at DA)?

 

[FtlIsAwesome]

Actually, I see the ad as having a point, even though part of it may not be correct.

Studies have proven time and again that alcohol is far more hazardous to your health than marijuana is.

Then ban alcohol. Wait, they tried that and it didn't work...

 

[OmCheeto]

Sure it is not well thought out but it says "civilizations fail when they turn their back on the principles that made them great". It is arguing that US is going against its principles not that government/stimulus are bad.

The last time I pointed out the principle which the US has turned it's back on, which is killing us economically, the thread got locked.

Maybe I'll go back and watch Toffler's video. I was probably only 13 when I read his book "Future Shock".

 

[nismaratwork]

What I find least believable is a China which, during its continued population and pollution dillema, shores this up so completely that by 2030 they're gloating already.

Oh, and using Japanese and American products to provide the demo (iPad).

 

[Proton Soup]

I have long been a fan of Alvin Toffler. In fact, the "electronic cottage" concept in his book, The Third Wave, gave me the idea for my business as it exists today. I realized he as right and we are there - the technology now exists to do what he discussed many years earlier. You might find his ideas about our near future interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWj-G-VZEQ

As for China, he thinks they will have their own problems to deal with.


http://www.openfuture.co.nz/toffler.html

yeah, i remember something about this guy from years back. didn't he go to south korea and convince them that education was the path for them? and then they march toward modernization the way japan once did and end up with the highest per capita of PhDs. now of course they are dealing with other problems like internet addiction among teens.

as for the OP, no, i do not see the ad as racist. it's just coincidence that a country that may be one of the next superpowers is full of asian people. for ages it seemed that might be the USSR, and such an ad would have a Russian flavor.

 

[edward]

It is obvious that the ad plays on the fear factor. It worked for Bush with WMD's. I think we can expect to see a lot more similar ads between now and Nov. 2012.

 

[nismaratwork]

yeah, i remember something about this guy from years back. didn't he go to south korea and convince them that education was the path for them? and then they march toward modernization the way japan once did and end up with the highest per capita of PhDs. now of course they are dealing with other problems like internet addiction among teens.

as for the OP, no, i do not see the ad as racist. it's just coincidence that a country that may be one of the next superpowers is full of asian people. for ages it seemed that might be the USSR, and such an ad would have a Russian flavor.

OK, and that charictature of Russian people would have been what?... Accurate?

To be honest, the only gloating I see is generally from people who are deeply entrenched in losing; that goes for us, and the Chinese. I suppose if you look at China as a GDP, it's going in the right direction, but if you look at the populace in general, overpopulation, loss of arible land, water, and and a military with more power and money than sense or restraint... I'd say China is headed for trouble.

The last time two superpowers 'cold-warred' it, we both ended up essentially broke; why do you think China can play catch-up with an astronomical population and not suffer a similar fate? Currency controls don't last forever either... really, this is fear-mongering, and as many countries are currently beating the pants off the USA, I'd say the whole presentation was a bit racist.

Then again, so were ye olde Soviet propoganda bits too; usually more than one pathology can be found in something so based in ignorance, fear, and laughable stupidity.

 

[nismaratwork]

It is obvious that the ad plays on the fear factor. It worked for Bush with WMD's. I think we can expect to see a lot more similar ads between now and Nov. 2012.

Yeah, somehow I think 2030 is a little far off when things are going to hell as we speak in the ME, Japan is sunk, and we're still clawing our way out financial hell. Boy who cried wolf and all of that has to play a role, except for those who get off on fear.

 

[OmCheeto]

I just watched and transcribed the video in it's entirety, such that I might better understand the psychology behind it.

Their four "fear factor" points do I think pray on the uniformed "look out for the boogey man" masses, all of which have been debated endlessly here at the forum.

But it's most effective in two very psychological areas:
1. No one wants to be a failure.
2. No one wants to be laughed at.

I would counter attack the Ad buy tearing apart their final plea; "stop the spending that is bankrupting America"

Spending in and of itself doesn't bankrupt a nation. A breakdown of principles can. Which is how they started out the little video. But what principles are they talking about? There must be thousands!

We've got the basic ones:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Hmm... At least for me:
Life: check!
Liberty: check!
Happiness: check!

Maybe it's some newer principles?

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Ok then. It looks like we slid from Paternal to Maternal principles in about 100 years. (Party animals vs. Taking care of the kids.)(I say slid, because I am, in fact, a party animal.)

So here we are, a little more than 100 years later, and are trying to determine what exactly principles we should not be turning our backs on.

Anyone?

(please, oh please, let it be happiness)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU






*A bogeyman (also spelt bogieman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman" or boogieman) is an amorphous imaginary being used by adults to frighten children...

 

[nismaratwork]

Buggerman, Ton Ton Macoute, Sackman, Uncle Gunnysack... poor kids...

 

[rootX]

if you look at the populace in general, overpopulation, loss of arible land, water, and and a military with more power and money than sense or restraint... I'd say China is headed for trouble.

I would ask for some references (or evidences) for that

"populace in general, overpopulation, loss of arible land, water, and and a military with more power and money than sense or restraint" will put China in trouble

 

[nismaratwork]

I would ask for some references (or evidences) for that

"populace in general, overpopulation, loss of arible land, water, and and a military with more power and money than sense or restraint" will put China in trouble

They're all over the forum, from a variety of sources, and frankly the loss of arable land is common knowledge. In keeping with the standards set by pftest and others, google it.

here... http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=Geserit+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS306US306&q=Geserit+#hl=en&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS306US306&sa=X&ei=AImPTcCwLIy3twfWrai_DQ&ved=0CBcQvwUoAQ&q=china+loss+arable+land&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=d3cf963e1097ce14

The rest follows. This is GD, and if Phil doesn't require more, why should this.

 

[Proton Soup]

OK, and that charictature of Russian people would have been what?... Accurate?

To be honest, the only gloating I see is generally from people who are deeply entrenched in losing; that goes for us, and the Chinese. I suppose if you look at China as a GDP, it's going in the right direction, but if you look at the populace in general, overpopulation, loss of arible land, water, and and a military with more power and money than sense or restraint... I'd say China is headed for trouble.

The last time two superpowers 'cold-warred' it, we both ended up essentially broke; why do you think China can play catch-up with an astronomical population and not suffer a similar fate? Currency controls don't last forever either... really, this is fear-mongering, and as many countries are currently beating the pants off the USA, I'd say the whole presentation was a bit racist.

Then again, so were ye olde Soviet propoganda bits too; usually more than one pathology can be found in something so based in ignorance, fear, and laughable stupidity.

yeah, I'm not sure the fears are logical either. but the chinese have made great progress technologically and are likewise not averse to colonialism. I'm not sure where we are headed exactly, only that we live in interesting times.

again, as for the ad, what specifically about it do you find offensive?

 

[rootX]

They're all over the forum, from a variety of sources, and frankly the loss of arable land is common knowledge.

Sure, put some of sources here then. Also, I didn't ask you if there is a loss of arable land. Rather I asked:

"populace in general, overpopulation, loss of arible land, water, and and a military with more power and money than sense or restraint" will put China in trouble

In keeping with the standards set by pftest and others, google it.

The rest follows. This is GD, and if Phil doesn't require more, why should this.

I really don't care about pf or GD standards or what Phil requires but if you want to make an opinionated statement like China is going into trouble for this and that, you should better have something to backup with. It is your not my job to do your homework (google for you to find how true are your statements).