What are you supposed to do in these situations?

  • Thread starter 27Thousand
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  • #26
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You shouldn't concern yourself with how "normal" people would react to the situation (who decides whose normal anyway) just go with what you feel. For example in that first situation, if you actually had a genuine interest in that girl, indicate it by doing something like smiling, touching her arm etc. Dave gave some pretty good situations on how to flirt.
I agree not everyone does everything the same exact and just like in Statistics there's variation.

What I'm wondering about is you mentioned "smiling, touching her arm etc", the girl on Yahoo!Answers mentioned touching on the arm as a way to flirt to see how she responds, and Dave said flirting is like a dance. They all have similarities in the big picture. What if men with normal social skills do things like this without even knowing about it? So I'm very curious about that and it's why I wonder what other men here think they would do if a woman leaned forward like that, smiled, and asked that question.
 
  • #27
DaveC426913
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Thanks zoobyshoe,

So one thing I'm trying to figure out is if I should have treated the second situation differently, how should I have done it? Some say that waiting two months was the problem and that I should have not waited so long because perhaps she got a boyfriend in the meantime. Then that one girl on Yahoo!Answers said that I should test the waters by flirting and see how a woman respond back, for example that touching on the arm thing I mentioned earlier. So I'm just confused.
It is definitely a possbility that she was interested and then got bored waiting.
It is also a possibility that she was interested but, since her attentions were netting her nothing, she thought she'd try some hard-to-get.

Either way: You didn't bite. You weren't interested. Or "you snoozed, you losed".

For example, what are some ideas of what to have done differently?
Anything.

The key is to do something. Flirt back. Test the waters. Show interest.
 
  • #28
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Thanks zoobyshoe,

So one thing I'm trying to figure out is if I should have treated the second situation differently, how should I have done it? Some say that waiting two months was the problem and that I should have not waited so long because perhaps she got a boyfriend in the meantime. Then that one girl on Yahoo!Answers said that I should test the waters by flirting and see how a woman respond back, for example that touching on the arm thing I mentioned earlier. So I'm just confused.

For example, what are some ideas of what to have done differently?
I reread your account #2 and actually, I think you handled it pretty well. Snowshoeing is pretty casual and not like an official date like dinner. In principle, I think that's exactly the kind of thing it's OK to ask a girl to do.

However, I think what happened is that she simply liked you and enjoyed your company as a kind of class buddy, but probably had no romantic interest. The fact she suddenly started to avoid you strongly suggests to me that she sensed the snowshoeing wasn't the casual invitation you hoped it would sound like.

Even people who would not rank high on the autistic spectrum on that test often don't realize how much their real motivations show through to others when they're trying to seem more casual than they actually feel, or otherwise hide their true motivations. I am sure you have sometimes felt that when people were acting a certain way there was something "not right" about it, that they were in a different mood than they claimed to be, or wanted something different than they claimed to want. So, in principle snowshoeing was a casual enough suggestion, but in practice she may have sensed getting together with her was much more important in your mind than was comfortable for her. That's my best guess about what happened given the limitations of the internet.

Anyway, it's good to cultivate a lot of friends who are girls even if these friendships aren't going to turn into romances because when other girls see you hanging around with girls it creates the impression in their minds you are likable and get along well with women: always a plus. These girls who don't know you will later feel it's OK to approach you if the opportunity to talk to you comes up at some point. The more they see you hanging around with girls the more they are going to wonder what it is about you that you seem to be attractive to girls and the more they will want to get to know you. In this way you increase the number of girls you know and also increase your chances of finding one to have a relationship with.

So, what I would have done is just stay friends with this girl and not try to engineer a date with her, so you could meet her friends, her friends friends, and so on, till you hang out with so many girls that even strange girls want to get to know you.

This post is getting long, but I also want to say that hanging out with girls in a purely friendly way is the best path to learning to understand and get used to girls. So, make as many friends who are girls as you possibly can, and take every opportunity to talk to them, watch them talk to each other, and watch them talk to guys, and little by little you will start to sense what various behaviors, and tones of voice, and postures, and turns of speech probably mean. Mostly I suppose, you'll be baffled, but whatever little insights you gain will be steps in the right direction.
 
  • #29
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Oh. Don't get friend zoned. As soon as she starts to tell you about her problems and you aren't dating, get out of that as soon as possible, especially if you want to date her.
 
  • #30
Dembadon
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Oh. Don't get friend zoned. As soon as she starts to tell you about her problems and you aren't dating, get out of that as soon as possible, especially if you want to date her.
Why? Are two people who wish to start a relationship supposed to be completely ignorant of each others' lives? Is one supposed to enter into a relationship with someone of which their understanding is only superficial?
 
  • #31
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Why? Are two people who wish to start a relationship supposed to be completely ignorant of each others' lives? Is one supposed to enter into a relationship with someone of which their understanding is only superficial?

I'm not sure if you've heard of the friend zone or not, but think of it like a ladder. Once you get on the friend zone side, no matter how high you climb that ladder you will never jump over to the potential relationship side, it doesnt matter if the person she describes as the exact guy she wants describes you perfectly, she will never go for you.

No you shouldn't be completely ignorant of the other persons problems and the like, but you do not want to know everything right away because that is the gateway into friendzone territory.

If I am interested in dating a girl, I do not want to hear about all of her problems before I even date her, it takes all the excitement and mystery out of dating. Once you know most everything about another person, why even date? There's nothing to find out besides how they look naked, and maybe if they want a pet fish in the future or not, but as soon as everything comes out of the closet the spark is gone and you will just be a friend.

Do husbands share all of their secrets with their wives? I sure hope not
Do wives shair all of their secrets with their husbands? They never have and they never will.

And that is what keeps a relationship moving on. The mystery and excitement of finding out something new.
 
  • #32
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Oh. Don't get friend zoned. As soon as she starts to tell you about her problems and you aren't dating, get out of that as soon as possible, especially if you want to date her.
Getting friend zoned is exactly what 27Thousand needs at this point. If you have been following his many threads it's clear, and he knows it, that he has great difficulty following the most basic of social signals. He needs to put the goal of a girlfriend on hold for a while and concentrate on simply learning to understand what's going on around him. Any girl who friend zones him is going to represent a wealth of direct experience for him about how girls think, talk, and interact with guys.
 
  • #33
DaveC426913
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Getting friend zoned is exactly what 27Thousand needs at this point. If you have been following his many threads it's clear, and he knows it, that he has great difficulty following the most basic of social signals. He needs to put the goal of a girlfriend on hold for a while and concentrate on simply learning to understand what's going on around him. Any girl who friend zones him is going to represent a wealth of direct experience for him about how girls think, talk, and interact with guys.
That is an excellent, excellent point. This is probably the best thing 27K can do right now.
 
  • #34
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If 27k isn't a fragile soul, friendzoning is fine (now that i've read the whole thread) But, it could end up bad in the end. What if he trys to ask her out after being friend zoned? It destroys beginners confidence to get shot down, and what if he never tries again?
 
  • #35
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If 27k isn't a fragile soul, friendzoning is fine (now that i've read the whole thread) But, it could end up bad in the end. What if he trys to ask her out after being friend zoned? It destroys beginners confidence to get shot down, and what if he never tries again?
It's good you read the whole thread, but you really need to be aware of his many other threads in which he was trying to enlist everyone's help in developing a mathematical formula for determining whether or not a girl was flirting. He was not able to understand why that is an unworkable strategy. I suggested to him that he must have high functioning autism, or perhaps Asperger's syndrome, and he checked it out by taking an informal online test on which he scored high on the autistic spectrum. So, between that test and his remarks here it's clear he operates as if he were autistic, whether or not he'd actually get that diagnosis in practice.

People offering him advice have not fully appreciated the deficit under which he's operating, and are throwing out advanced level solutions to someone who is struggling with basics, trying to make a gymnast out of someone who clearly can't even always keep his balance when walking, so to speak.

Getting friend zoned by one girl only puts you at a romantic disadvantage with that girl. I know from personal experience that what you learn about girls from being in the friend zone can be used later to #1 Prevent a girl you're actually interested in from putting you in the friend zone, and #2 cater to what you have learned girls find attractive. In 27Thousand's case, a lot of time in the friend zone is going to be a necessary boot camp, so to speak, for merely understanding social interactions.
 
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  • #36
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Getting friend zoned is exactly what 27Thousand needs at this point.
Yeah, but if she friend-zones him, then she won't... you know... :wink:
 
  • #37
Math Is Hard
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I completely agree with Zooby. There are a couple of main benefits to "friend zone".

1) as mentioned, you get experience with the opposite sex on a comfortable, platonic basis, and get a chance to know them as people, like yourself, and not some strange, alien species to be puzzled about (as some people struggling with social instincts might do).

2) people who have friend-zoned you will introduce you to their friends, and because they like you, they'll be actively looking for someone you might want to date among their own friends.

It's not a bad situation at all.
 
  • #38
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Yeah, but if she friend-zones him, then she won't... you know... :wink:
See my answer to MotoH right above your post.
 
  • #39
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This is all blatant womenist propaganda. Don't fall for their friend-zone hype!
 
  • #40
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This is all blatant womenist propaganda. Don't fall for their friend-zone hype!
Let me try this again:

You really need to be aware of his many other threads in which he was trying to enlist everyone's help in developing a mathematical formula for determining whether or not a girl was flirting. He was not able to understand why that is an unworkable strategy. I suggested to him that he must have high functioning autism, or perhaps Asperger's syndrome, and he checked it out by taking an informal online test on which he scored high on the autistic spectrum. So, between that test and his remarks here it's clear he operates as if he were autistic, whether or not he'd actually get that diagnosis in practice.

People offering him advice have not fully appreciated the deficit under which he's operating, and are throwing out advanced level solutions to someone who is struggling with basics, trying to make a gymnast out of someone who clearly can't even always keep his balance when walking, so to speak.

Getting friend zoned by one girl only puts you at a romantic disadvantage with that girl. I know from personal experience that what you learn about girls from being in the friend zone can be used later to #1 Prevent a girl you're actually interested in from putting you in the friend zone, and #2 cater to what you have learned girls find attractive. In 27Thousand's case, a lot of time in the friend zone is going to be a necessary boot camp, so to speak, for merely understanding social interactions.
 
  • #41
DaveC426913
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This is all blatant womenist propaganda. Don't fall for their friend-zone hype!
Let me try this again:

You really need to be aware of his many other threads in which he was trying to enlist everyone's help in developing a mathematical formula for determining whether or not a girl was flirting. He was not able to understand why that is an unworkable strategy.
Forgive me 27K for talking about you publicly in the 3rd person.

dotman, I strongly concur with zoob. I have had a lot of communication with 27K and in my (very) humble opinion, he is definitely an undiagnosed ASD sufferer for which I have been pleading with him to get help. This issue is more serious than merely wanting to get a girl.

Don't take my word for it though. Here are five threads, all started by 27K, all attempts to mathematically model flirting or relationships, all locked.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=362912
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=359708
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=361527
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=356554
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=341588
 
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  • #42
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:uhh: You all need to grow a sense of humor or something.
 
  • #43
DaveC426913
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:uhh: You all need to grow a sense of humor or something.
Well, it's not really funny. We get that the friend zone is rife with humour and we can be as funny as the next guy.

It's just that, in this circumstance, you've stepped into something that's of concern. Did you read the links I supplied?
 
  • #44
Pyrrhus
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Hmmm, interesting. Good luck 27k!. By the way, I agree with Dave, Zooby and Cyrus.

Dave and Zooby: Excellent idea!. In fact, I remember I was too shy to get a girl when I first started. I didn't even have female friends, and worst I remember a time a friend told me a girl named Nathalie actually had a huge crush on me, and I still managed to fail there (I was too shy). However, Later I met a girl named Laura, and we became friends. The amount of experience from her friendship was super beneficial for me!. One of the most important lessons was girls as PIVOTs. Female friends can become an entrance for you to meet other girls through them. Girls that can become your girlfriends. I use this sometimes when girls friend me. You go for their friends.

Cyrus: Yes... I do believe 27k should get psychiatric help. Another solution will be to go out everyday for months to clubs/bars/... and put himself in difficult situations (hopefully not get his *** kicked). Just kidding, Interact with the ladies in those places.
 
  • #45
Roqueez
"So... Why are you interested in my teeth! :smile:"
"I like to take care of natures great works."

Corny huh? Well girls like it corny. One more thing, there are girls in this universe that either like you or are generally very friendly. They might be unaware how your attraction to them may be imposing so don't assume anything. Take a step back, relax and talk to her some more without flirting to find out basic things about her like if she's seeing anyone. Worst case scenario you make a friend out of her.

Girls are people too.
 
  • #47
Astronuc
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I had a lot of girl friends starting in first grade through 9th grade. From 10th grade on, my relationships with women were essentially platonic, with some romantic aspect. But since I was focused on academics and had a lot of uncertainty (with a certain amount of instability) in my course in life, I refrained from becoming too romantically involved, with a couple of exceptions, until I met the woman I married. I enjoyed the companionship (friend zone) of a number of women during high school and university.

I've been with my wife for 29+ years. Next year, we will have been together for 30 years (1 not married), and she will have been with me for half of her lifetime.
 
  • #48
Evo
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The OP is no longer here, thread closed.
 

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