What Are Your Thoughts on Open Relationships?

[JasonRox]

Condoms are a wonderful thing. Polyamorous does not necessarily mean stupid.

Quoting this since it has to be pointed out.

 

[moose]

Haha, she's crazy. Being exclusive still wouldn't solve the problem!

Seriously. She unfriended me on facebook because I "hurt her so bad". We were together for a week. Uhhhh.

 

[JasonRox]

Seriously. She unfriended me on facebook because I "hurt her so bad". We were together for a week. Uhhhh.

Wow, that's fast.

The facebook thing is hilarious. I just got it (had it deleted for a long time), and I'm not sure why people focus on it so much. People tag me in pictures, I take them out. People I don't know try to add me, I take it out. People want to write trivial pointless stuff on my wall, I take down the wall.

People want to learn all about you from a website. So, I took it down. It's very annoying.

Note: I got involved with a girl once, and at like 2-3am... you know. She decides to add my on facebook on my laptop. First thing that shows up, she broke up with her boyfriend after we've started seeing each other. So, it has that broken heart thing and everything. I was like... awkward moment.

 

[JasonRox]

Condoms are a wonderful thing. Polyamorous does not necessarily mean stupid.

Haha, it's almost like Integral is saying...

I believe in a unique love and I love you very much... there is a high risk of STD's you know.



Note: Like I mentionned earlier, STD's is a risk for anyone and everyone.

 

[moose]

Wow, that's fast.

The facebook thing is hilarious. I just got it (had it deleted for a long time), and I'm not sure why people focus on it so much. People tag me in pictures, I take them out. People I don't know try to add me, I take it out. People want to write trivial pointless stuff on my wall, I take down the wall.

People want to learn all about you from a website. So, I took it down. It's very annoying.

Note: I got involved with a girl once, and at like 2-3am... you know. She decides to add my on facebook on my laptop. First thing that shows up, she broke up with her boyfriend after we've started seeing each other. So, it has that broken heart thing and everything. I was like... awkward moment.

Haha. If you don't have a relationship status on there, and then one day decide to make some changes to your profile and make your relationship status "single", the broken heart thing shows up and says "John Johnstein has changed his relationship status to single"... Now everyone thinks that John Johnstein just went through a breakup.

A clue that she was psychotic was when she kept saying things such as "whats it like being perfect?" or "why are you the perfect guy?"...

I think I'd like for my next relationship to be open, unless I have *really* strong feelings for the girl. I kinda view it as keeping my options open and not missing out on any opportunities.

 

[JasonRox]

...not missing out on any opportunities.

I find that to be kind of a negative view on the outlook of life to begin with. You shouldn't be an open relationship for fear of not meeting Ms. Right.

Melissa is totally aware that she can lose her "primary" status if I found a better girl. I communicated that to her because I don't want her finding comfort and security on the "primary" status position. I think you need to communicate to even a girl you choose to be open with... that if you find what you believe is Ms. Right, you will let her go. She needs to know this. Notice how much more communication is needed for open relationships? Much healthier in my opinion. Also, notice how much communication is left out of monogamy? You said you would like to be open because you want to see your options and not miss out on opportunities, and Ms. Right. Did you ever communicate this feeling to a girl you've been exclusive with? Telling her that being exclusive might make you feel like missing out.

 

[DaveC426913]

The facebook thing is hilarious. People tag me in pictures, I take them out.

You can do that?

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Schrodinger and his wife had a somewhat "open" relationship. When Schrodinger found the Schrodinger equation, he was on vacation in the Alps with a lover (not his wife). When he got home, he found that he couldn't solve the radial part of his equation for hydrogen, so he asked mathematician Hermann Weyl, his wife's lover, for help.

Personally, I couldn't be involved in such a relationship.

Me neither, I would be too embarrassed to. I would just rewrite it with orthogonal coordinates.

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[JasonRox]

You can do that?

Yeah, you can individually take them out. In the pictures people tag you, it will have a "remove my tag" somewhere. You have to them for all pictures you don't like. Or you can do what I did, and in the security options, you can choose to not allow anyone to tag you.

 

[john16O]

Oh no, you communicate with all of them for sure.

Basically, I have no boundaries to how far I explore my relationship with someone else. If it starts interfering with another relationship, it can cause a break up in the problematic relationship. For example, I hang out with Melissa (fake name) two-three times a week. If I start a relationship with someone else, and I'm only hanging out with Melissa once a week now, it can cause conflict as it is obviously interfering with the relationship. The relationship can drop to "secondary" status, or we can just break it off, as a new primary relationship is emerging. Quite similar to being monogamous, and you start liking someone else, you break off the current relationship.

Also, I have rules to never deliberately interfere with another's relationship. Melissa for example can not whine to hang out with me Friday night if I have a date planned with someone else. By doing so, she's deliberately attempting to end the date, or if she a calls repeteatedly during a date. Or anything of the like. You either do not interfere or improve the relationships I have with others. Same rules apply for any new partner.

There are many other rules too. Of course, it seems complicated, but it's rather natural for me now.

seems like you took that straight out of a players' handbook...

 

[JasonRox]

seems like you took that straight out of a players' handbook...

Care to elaborate?

My views and values stem from existentialism not a player's handbook.

 

[john16O]

Care to elaborate?

My views and values stem from existentialism not a player's handbook.

lol no need to elaborate. The fact that your views are stemming from a philosophical movement during the 19th and 20th century is quite musing...

 

[JasonRox]

lol no need to elaborate. The fact that your views are stemming from a philosophical movement during the 19th and 20th century is quite musing...

Monogamous views are from 2000 years ago.

Are they bad because they are outdated or recent? Please elaborate and contribute to the discussion.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I think what john16O is saying is that what you describe sounds a bit like a sugar-coating of "I'll sleep with whomever I want to and if you do things I don't like I'll push you away without hesitation" - as though it could easily put you in a position to play various women off one another to get whatever you want from everyone. But as long as you're explaining this to people before you start a relationship with them it seems fair to me.

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[john16O]

I think what john16O is saying is that what you describe doesn't sounds a bit like a sugar-coating of "I'll sleep with whoever I want to and if you do things I don't like I'll push you away without hesitation" - as though it could easily put you in a position to play various women off one another to get whatever you want from everyone. But as long as you're explaining this to people before you start a relationship with them it seems fair to me.[RIGHT]⚛[/RIGHT]

Exactly! How many women are willing to agree to this? Actually, allow me to rephrase that: How many NORMAL women would agree to those terms when entering a relationship? Even if it is an open relationship. That is like me telling a girl this: "Hey, I find you interesting, and will hang out with you, but if, and when another girls comes along I am going to move on to her. Or we can keep what we have going, just do not interrupt my other relationships.". Seriously, what girl in their right mind would agree to that! I am about to move to Canada if that's really what Canadian women are like.

 

[cristo]

Exactly! How many women are willing to agree to this?

Well, there are clearly some women around that agree to it, else Jason wouldn't be able to hold down such a relationship, would he?

 

[john16O]

Well, there are clearly some women around that agree to it, else Jason wouldn't be able to hold down such a relationship, would he?

or he isn't telling us everything...

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Perhaps some of these women are inflatable. Y'know, the strong, silent type. Inflatable women will agree to anything once you get a few drinks in them.

(Just kidding jrox.)

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[NeoDevin]

Exactly! How many women are willing to agree to this? Actually, allow me to rephrase that: How many NORMAL women would agree to those terms when entering a relationship? Even if it is an open relationship. That is like me telling a girl this: "Hey, I find you interesting, and will hang out with you, but if, and when another girls comes along I am going to move on to her. Or we can keep what we have going, just do not interrupt my other relationships.". Seriously, what girl in their right mind would agree to that! I am about to move to Canada if that's really what Canadian women are like.

You have clearly been exposed to a very small subset of the women that are out there, and you are letting your limited experience cloud your opinion of what's `normal'.

Besides that, you seem to be defining `normal' to very specifically exclude any women who would be interested in a polyamorous relationship (implied, not stated). In that case, I'm sure Jason is not interested in any of the women who fit your definition of normal.

 

[cristo]

or he isn't telling us everything...

What's that meant to mean? What would he gain from lying about such things? Jason's spoken about such relationships for as long as I've 'known' him.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

In that case, I'm sure Jason is not interested in any of the women who fit your definition of normal.

Except for the ones he's had to degrade to secondary status, of course. But that's just business, I mean polyamory, it's nothing personal. It hurt him almost as much as it hurt her, gettin' his rules all violated and whatnot.

But seriously, if it's all handled openly and maturely by all parties involved and Jason isn't using the arrangement to leverage anything out of anyone, it's fine by me.

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[JasonRox]

Women who agree to this kind of relationship exist all over the world. I also think it's an insult to women when you make a claim of what is normal to them as if they can't think for themselves. It's another attempt at defining women, which is degrading.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Women who agree to this kind of relationship exist all over the world. I also think it's an insult to women when you make a claim of what is normal to them as if they can't think for themselves. It's another attempt at defining women, which is degrading.

But, you do tell women about these rules before doing anything that would lead them on, right? Because leading someone on in that way would be a bit more insulting and degrading than making statements involving generalizations to her would.

I agree that john16O made a generalization there but when you're talking in terms of demoting relationships to secondary status when someone more interesting comes along, it seems like you're in a precarious position to be schooling other guys on how to respect women. That is, it seems that you've chosen a path that explicitly exposes you to a high risk of mistreating women if you aren't careful.

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[john16O]

Women who agree to this kind of relationship exist all over the world. I also think it's an insult to women when you make a claim of what is normal to them as if they can't think for themselves. It's another attempt at defining women, which is degrading.

I would love to hear a females perspective on all of this...I think that you are taking my generalizations a little to far and putting words in my mouth(so to speak). No where in my previous post did I implicitly tell women what is normal. And to be more specific, I am going to define normal as what society classifies as the norm...

Edit: And what you are doingaving multiple relationships and downplaying some to a secondary status(CaptainQuasar's Idea)by seemingly viewing relationships as a game, is NOT normal...

 

[JasonRox]

But, you do tell women about these rules before doing anything that would lead them on, right? Because leading someone on in that way would be a bit more insulting and degrading than making statements involving generalizations to her would.

Do you tell women that you want to be exclusive and possibly marry her when you date her? Or do you tell her you're just scoping the field?

Does a gay guy tell you he's gay when he begins a friendship with you?

If I meet a nice girl, I hang out with them. Go on a date, make out with them if it's good, and so on. Even on the first date, there is no guarantee of boyfriend/girlfriend status or anything of the like, even in the monogamous world. Once the relationship reaches a certain level, different and subjective, then I do bring up discussion of open relationship. To bring it up on the first date would be absurd since she doesn't know me, my personality, character and values yet. Just like you don't ask someone on the first date if they want to be your boyfriend/girlfriend.

None of them found it degrading, or find it "manipulation". I do not use words like "love" either until everything is understood, and the relationship has matured. I know that "love" is a strong word, and when first exposed to open relationships, someone might be lured into it by using such words and expression. Abusive monogamous relationships are held together often by using strong words such as "love". I want them to make decisions on their own, which they are completely capable of doing.

A lot of times, I do not ask a girl on a date because I know first hand they wouldn't be ok with it. For example, if they know me, and we had that discussion before.

I agree that john16O made a generalization there but when you're talking in terms of demoting relationships to secondary status when someone more interesting comes along, it seems like you're in a precarious position to be schooling other guys on how to respect women. That is, it seems that you've chosen a path that explicitly exposes you to a high risk of mistreating women if you aren't careful.

Oh for sure. You are high risk at mistreating women for sure! I had two other friends who started following this path of relationships. One of them which I caught misleading, manipulating, lying, deceiving and playing women. My other friend also noticed this too. We haven't talked to him since, and it's been over 2 years. I do not respect him whatsoever, as he lied and tried to manipulate a female friend of mine and the third friend (who started this).

Also, don't frown on the possibility of mistreating women in this type of relationship. It's all too common and popular that women are also mistreated in monogamous relationships because the man lies and cheats, or the man abuses, or the woman manipulates, and so on. Also, I never point out risks of mistreatment in monogamy or open relationships as a reason to choose one or the other. I use them as reasons to choose a respectful mature partner.

 

[Moonbear]

I would love to hear a females perspective on all of this...I think that you are taking my generalizations a little to far and putting words in my mouth(so to speak). No where in my previous post did I implicitly tell women what is normal.

From a female perspective, it is demeaning that you presume women cannot make a decision for themselves on this. If they are comfortable with it, why do you have a problem with them participating?

And to be more specific, I am going to define normal as what society classifies as the norm...

But that's a flaw in and of itself. Normal isn't the same as average in this context. Just because one approach to relationships is more common than the other in society doesn't make one more right than the other.

Edit: And what you are doingaving multiple relationships and downplaying some to a secondary status(CaptainQuasar's Idea)by seemingly viewing relationships as a game, is NOT normal...

This is where you're being judgemental. Who said anyone is being downplayed to a secondary status? You are inserting your own hangups and misunderstandings into the issue, but they are not part of what Jason is describing. There is no reason that he could not date two women and have them both viewed as equal status, or that they could not date another man and have them considered equal status. If at some point someone feels they are being given secondary status, they should get out, and can make that decision. Jason has already explained that pretty clearly early on. If one girlfriend of his expects to get priority treatment, and interfere with another girlfriend to push her to "secondary status," then he would end that relationship.

Besides, how is this really any different from serial monogamy, which is what most people practice? At some point, a new person comes along and the previous is downgraded to secondary or non-existent status. The concept of an open relationship is different, in that one relationship isn't given more weight than another. Dating a new person isn't a phasing out of an old one as it usually is with serial monogamy.

It's perfectly okay if this isn't something you'd participate in and don't feel comfortable with, all we're asking is you refrain from being judgemental of other people's views.

 

[morphism]

If you're discrete, every relationship is an open one.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Do you tell women that you want to be exclusive and possibly marry her when you date her? Or do you tell her you're just scoping the field?

Actually, yeah, I do tell women that's what I'm looking for. And on the occasions when I've simply been interested in having sex with a friend or acquaintance I think I've indicated that.

Does a gay guy tell you he's gay when he begins a friendship with you?

Obviously I don't know whether someone has not told me he's gay and has actually been gay. But if I started hanging out a lot with someone who I knew to be gay I would mention I was straight and if there was any question of attraction at all I would definitely make sure he knew that I'd never felt interested in being bi either.

Also, I never point out risks of mistreatment in monogamy or open relationships as a reason to choose one or the other.

I didn't point that out in the context of whether to choose monogamy or polygamy, I pointed it out because you were calling out john16O as being insulting and degrading to women. That still seems to me like the pot calling the kettle black if I'm properly understanding your approach, or to use another proverb people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I'm glad that you're careful in your use of the word "love" and obviously have some thought-out principles you're applying here. But it seems to me like you're waiting until someone may have developed feelings for you and then saying "Well, if you'd like to have a serious relationship with me, you're going to have to try out an open relationship". Which seems pretty sketchy even if you're refraining from actively deceiving them.

To try to concoct at least an imperfect analogy to illustrate what I mean: I live in the Boston area. If I was looking for a job and in a local Boston newspaper I found a great job opportunity, went through a multiple interview process at a local office, and made it down to the last two or three or was offered the job and they only then told me "but, you have to move to Chicago" I would feel played, to use john16O's term. That's something that ought to be disclosed very early in the interview process or ideally in the advertisement.

Who said anyone is being downplayed to a secondary status?

I may have misunderstood him but Jason said, emphasis mine:

If it starts interfering with another relationship, it can cause a break up in the problematic relationship. For example, I hang out with Melissa (fake name) two-three times a week. If I start a relationship with someone else, and I'm only hanging out with Melissa once a week now, it can cause conflict as it is obviously interfering with the relationship. The relationship can drop to "secondary" status, or we can just break it off, as a new primary relationship is emerging.

I don't have any problem with the open relationship or polyamory thing in general, it's just that if you can reasonably expect that a woman is trying to explore the possibility of a monogamous relationship with you, but that's not even possible because you're only willing to participate in open relationships, you cannot honorably let it go very far at all without telling her that.

It's kind of like one of the purposes of wearing a wedding ring, except that instead of signaling "I'm taken" you should be disclosing something like "I can't be taken, period."

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[CaptainQuasar]

If you're discrete, every relationship is an open one.

If that is a mathematics joke there should be a special tenth circle of hell for subtle forum gremlins like you. GROOOAN.

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[Moonbear]

If that is a mathematics joke there should be a special tenth circle of hell for subtle forum gremlins like you. GROOOAN.

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I'd have completely missed the joke if you didn't point it out!