What can you expect in the Food Thread on PF?

[Evo]

If you mean superior in price, then no. But as I recall, I did pay more than that for the Sabatier knives I've had.

By that measure Rachel Ray has superior gear too.

I've been quite satisfied that my Sabatier was good enough for whatever my purposes. I think the Sabatier is priced less because the blades do discolor, they aren't stainless, but that of course makes them easier to sharpen too with a couple of quick passes of the sharpening rod. I have a couple of stainless blades and they are good, but I guess I just prefer the carbon steel blades.

Try one, you'll love it.

There is just a feel, a heft, a balance with Wusthof that you don't get with Sabatier.

 

[LowlyPion]

OK, now I'm scared! Well-used carbon-steel knives should have a dark patina. That patina stabilizes the surface against further oxidation. Then, maintain the edge. I have a 2-sided diamond hone and a decent steel, and there is little that a decent knife needs apart from a little periodic touch-up to keep it operating at top performance. To be fair, the diamond hone gets used most when cleavers, butcher-knives, and other softer-steel tools need to be re-sharpened.

Yeah, well, I'm not always careful. Sometimes a piece of onion gets stuck to the blade or I leave it on the counter and a little water might get trapped underneath overnight. Evening out the coloration makes me feel a little better about my crimes, It let's me feel less guilty, even though you might see it as compounding the offense.

I do just use the steel rod for sharpening, and that is most satisfactory.

 

[turbo]

Try one, you'll love it.

There is just a feel, a heft, a balance with Wusthof that you don't get with Sabatier.

There are Sabatiers, and there are Sabatiers. Apparently any knife-maker in that region can glom onto that name at will. The ones I buy have a 4-star and elephant logo. A 6" carbon steel chef's knife can run you about $70 or so. I bought my first Sabatier around 1976 or so at the grand opening of a store that sold high-end cookware. It was on sale for about $25. I picked it up, thumbed the edge and heard it "zing" and just had to have it. That was 1/2 day's pay for me in those days. My favorite knife ever, and it got lost years later in one of our frequent moves (chasing jobs kept us mobile).

As you can see, buying a 14-piece knife set for $99 does not get you the quality of a decent forged Sabatier - just some knives with a name on them. Here's the real deal, and even these are the "inox" stainless blades. The carbon-steel blades are much more expensive.
http://www.greatfrenchknives.com/sets.html

 

[turbo]

Supper last night was wonderful! I grilled baskets of sliced summer squash, red onions, bell peppers, and mushroom and basted them with a sauce I whipped up. It started with about a cup (+) of Burgundy, the juice of two lemons, about 1/4 cup of extra-virgin olive oil, oregano, basil, black pepper, and salt and some Javin brand curry powder. I also added a hefty squeeze of ketchup to the sauce so I could get it to blacken on the vegetables a bit. Once the vegetables were about done, I shuffled those clamshell baskets off to one side with the burner on low, turned up the other side of the grill to high and cooked up a 1" thick boneless rib-eye. It was very cold and windy out of the deck, so we had to eat inside, but it felt great to have a "cookout" with fresh vegetables. Store-bought vegetables are a poor substitute, but in a few months we'll be doing it "for real" with the good stuff from the garden.

Edit: I cut the lemons with a SS blade, but gave the new little 5" Kuhn Rikon carbon-steel blade a workout cutting the vegetables. The blade has a non-stick coating that is a bit rough, and it releases cleanly. Slicing summer squash and onions can often result in having previous slices "hitch-hike" on the blade, but this knife cut cleanly with no sticking. Score one for the cheapo knife. I still prefer my Sabatier 6" chef for food-prep though.

 

[turbo]

During food-prep for tonight's supper (including slicing potatoes and onions) I gave the Sabatier and the Kuhn Rikon a side-by side evaluation. The Sabatier is well-balanced and slightly blade-heavy with a nice bolster to help center the mass of the knife. It's great for slicing, but it is also very nice for light-weight chopping like mincing scallions and chives and garlic. The Kuhn Rikon is very thin and light and though it does a great job of slicing vegetables (with the aforementioned non-stick coatings to release thin slices easily) the lack of forward-weight will prompt me to grab the Sabatier instead when I have some light chopping to do. The nice curve of the Kuhn Rikon's edge should allow easy mincing with a rocking motion, though I would like to have a little more heft in the KR for chopping. Both knives will have a place in the kitchen (5-6" blades are tops!) but despite the expense of a hand-forged Sabatier ($70+ for a 6" chef's knife) I would pay it all over again to replace it. Balance is not as much of an issue with paring knives, so I may spring for a couple of KR parers. My next 8-10" chef's knife will definitely be a Sabatier 4-star elephant, though. (Be still my wallet!)

 

[Evo]

Well, I have to disagree with you about which knives are better, Wusthoff are consistently rated #1, and I have to agree from my personal experience.

Best Kitchen Knives

Top-rated kitchen cutlery overall

If you must own the best, reviews agree there's no substitute for Wusthoff knives (*Est. $190 for three). These are the overwhelming choice of both chefs and cooking enthusiasts. The whole knife is forged from high-carbon stainless steel, with a full tang (the blade metal extends all the way through the handle, helping balance the knife and ensuring durability). In fact, most top-of-the-line knives are made this way, but experts say Wusthoff knives are the most balanced, most natural-feeling knives on the market. One chef simply calls them "perfect."

http://www.consumersearch.com/kitchen-knives/best-kitchen-knives

Wüsthof's top-of-the-line high-carbon steel kitchen knives are rated the best or close to it in every credible review we saw.

http://www.consumersearch.com/kitchen-knives/wusthof-classic

 

[turbo]

I never said Wusthof's weren't nice. That would be nuts. You don't have to hunt too far to find food-service professionals that love Wusthof knives, swear by Henckle's or wouldn't use anything but a carbon-steel Thiers-Issard (****elephant logo) Sabatier. My favorite butcher knife is an old Henckle that still resides (unused) in my father's cutlery drawer. Nor am I going to go off the deep-end and claim that because Thiers-Issard carbon steel knives are $$$, that they are somehow better than other knives simply by virtue of their price. That said, people vote with their wallets. If a chef's knife doesn't feel like an extension of your hand, don't buy it.

If you have never auditioned a number of chef's knives, get to a restaurant-supply/gourmet shop and try them side-by side. My wife was pretty shocked when I grabbed the Sabatier instead of any of the other 6" chef knives, in part because even though it was on sale, it still cost more than any of the other similar knives. Like I said, it was a half a days pay at the time, and we were renting a dump of an apartment and saving money toward a place of our own.

 

[Evo]

Damn it man! I'm trying to entice you into a kitchen knife throw down!

 

[turbo]

Damn it man! I'm trying to entice you into a kitchen knife throw down!

I don't want to throw down any of my kitchen knives, least of all my precious Sabatier. You can throw your Wusthofs, though. They are so blade-heavy with so much steel in them that you probably couldn't hurt them. Just touch them up with a file or a bench grinder (a la Alton) and you'll be good to go.

 

[mgb_phys]

Remember that Sabatier is the name of a region. It is also the name of a particular manufacturer but it isn't a trade-mark (like Chedder cheese) so not all Sabatier knives are created equal.

The best knives I ever used were a set of black carbon tool-steel ones, you had to clean them after each use but they have a much better edge than any stainless. Ever wondered why lathe tools and milling cutters aren't made of 440 stainless.

 

[turbo]

Remember that Sabatier is the name of a region. It is also the name of a particular manufacturer but it isn't a trade-mark (like Chedder cheese) so not all Sabatier knives are created equal.

The best knives I ever used were a set of black carbon tool-steel ones, you had to clean them after each use but they have a much better edge than any stainless. Ever wondered why lathe tools and milling cutters aren't made of 440 stainless.

That's how come Evo dug up a link to a set of 14 "Sabatier" knives in a knife-block for $99 and I had to pay$70+ for a single 6" Thiers-Issard chef's knife. I'll eventually get more, but it's obvious that getting a large set of these knives should be done in stages as you evaluate the ones you have and where the next "hole" in the set needs to be filled.

Carbon steel is wonderful. I have quite a few knives, including pocket knives, hunting knives, etc (and a few custom-make blades) and I tend to gravitate toward the carbon steels and damascus blades. I have a neat little utility knife that I keep around my kitchen table. I took an old blade from a Hyde industrial cutter, softened it, shaped it, re-hardened it, and fitted it with micarta scales. It takes and holds an edge better than any SS blade I have.

 

[LowlyPion]

Damn it man! I'm trying to entice you into a kitchen knife throw down!

Oh. So feisty.

I would no more throw my well respected blades, up or down. Besides they are balanced for slicing and not throwing anyway.

We've made a deal, they and I. I treat them right. They treat me right.

 

[Evo]

Oh. So feisty.

I would no more throw my well respected blades, up or down. Besides they are balanced for slicing and not throwing anyway.

Hah, admit it, just the thought of me holding a knife in the same room with you or turbo strikes fear into your hearts. As it should. The last time I dropped a knife I ended up at the ER having my heel sewn back onto my foot.

I was standing in the kitchen with my back to the counter. I dropped a knife, it hit the floor in front of me, shot backwards into the cabinet behind me, richoted off the cabinet, slamming blade edge first into the back of my heel, making a deep slice into it across the entire width.

Try doing that.

I don't just have accidents, I have freak accidents.

 

[LowlyPion]

Hah, admit it, just the thought of me holding a knife in the same room with you or turbo strikes fear into your hearts. As it should. The last time I dropped a knife I ended up at the ER having my heel sewn back onto my foot.

I was standing in the kitchen with my back to the counter. I dropped a knife, it hit the floor in front of me, shot backwards into the cabinet behind me, richoted off the cabinet, slamming blade edge first into the back of my heel, making a deep slice into it across the entire width.

Try doing that.

I don't just have accidents, I have freak accidents.

I should say the thought occurred to me that I might think to advise you not to have sharp knives about as a home safety tip, but I decided you might see it as a clumsy slight.

I was thinking more along this rubbery line might be better suited than a razor sharp Wusthoff:
http://www.martialartssupermarket.com/images/products/3836thumb_oc.JPG

 

[Evo]

I should say the thought occurred to me that I might think to advise you not to have sharp knives about as a home safety tip, but I decided you might see it as a clumsy slight.

I was thinking more along this rubbery line might be better suited than a razor sharp Wusthoff:
http://www.martialartssupermarket.com/images/products/3836thumb_oc.JPG

I[/URL] can still poke my eye out with that.

My poor daughter is in a constant state of alarm about me, she knows that even the most seemingly harmless object can be deadly when I come into contact with it. She has been in the ER with me more times than she's had birthdays.

 

[turbo]

Let's see, who might LOVE to have this wonderful shirt?

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=137254

 

[Evo]

Let's see, who might LOVE to have this wonderful shirt?

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=137254

A fool and their money are soon parted.

There's a fool born every minute.

Rachel Ray's marketing team are taking advantage of the number of fools out there.

Did I mention that the Spawn of Evo went to a party she threw?

 

[turbo]

I just checked to see who's making knives for the Emiril Lagasse brand. Wusthof, so every time you buy a Wusthof, you are supporting Emiril and his insider-trading ex-con mistress - Martha! And some Australian outfit named Furi is making the Rachael Ray brand of cutlery being pushed by Target. I wonder who makes the Paula Deen brand lard-slicers? It's getting crazy out there. I have a number of female cousins (lots of women in that family) who have married well and are in competition to see who can build the fanciest house with the best-equipped kitchens (with celebrity-endorsed cookware and really expensive appliances of course) and frankly, none of them can cook to save their souls. What good is several hundreds of dollars worth of Emiril SS pots and pans if you can't cook for beans in the first place? There is indeed a sucker born every minute and I'm pretty sure most of them watch the Food Network dreaming that "If I just had Emiril's knives and Rachael Ray's pots (and Paula's lard-slicer) I could cook like they do."

 

[Moonbear]

At least Rachel Ray's pots have pretty colored handles.

 

[turbo]

At least Rachel Ray's pots have pretty colored handles.

Hopefully, they don't leak at the rivets, like Emiril's are claimed to do. Darn critics! Who cares if the non-stick cooking surface flakes off in big pieces or the stainless steel rusts?

 

[Moonbear]

I don't know. I don't read the reviews on them. I've looked at them in the stores, and they just look and feel cheap but with a celebrity price tag. The colorful ones Rachel Ray brands I think would be best suited to sell at a store like Target in a price range for students...inexpensive and fun to attract them to cooking. But, nope, it's super expensive.

 

[LowlyPion]

At least Rachel Ray's pots have pretty colored handles.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=13223

I have equivalents of every one of the stainless pots and with the exception of my original Cuisinart pans I got years ago, I got them for a fraction of these steeply discounted ones.

Her pea green porcelain line can collect dust in the stores at any discount as far as I am concerned. A most unappetizing shade of green.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=13401

And her Italian EVOO ...? Oy. 19.95 + s&h?
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=620321

I just got another 1 liter bottle of Italian EVOO for 6.49. No wonder the economy is going in the toilet. Who is buying this junk at these prices?

 

[turbo]

The only cooking pan that we have added in recent years (apart from lucky cast-iron finds at lawn sales) is a 12" SS skillet with flat bottom and gently rounded sides from KitchenAid. My wife got it deeply discounted at TJ Maxx and we're using it for stir-fries when we want a larger cooking area than that of one of our round-bottomed woks. The bottom of the pan has a 1/8 thick plate of SS, followed by a layer of Al, topped by 1/4" of Cu, another layer of Al, and finally the bottom of the SS pan. It's a tremendously heavy pan, so it has a front stirrup handle in addition to the regular handle (both are insulated and are riveted to the body of the pan). The combination of metals in the base holds the heat well and spreads it beautifully, so there are no hot-spots. This is not KitchenAid's cheaper "clad" or "nonstick" cookware, but part of a much pricier discontinued line. When she brought it home and told me what she paid (under $30) I started Googling and found similar discontinued pans selling for well over $100. I'm glad RR or EL didn't have their names attached to this line, or we would never have bought it. It comes in very handy when we have a few guests and want to do a large stir-fry to feed everybody at once.

 

[Borek]

I always thought that

taking advantage of the number of fools out there

is a very definition of marketing.

 

[turbo]

Right, Borek! Over-sell, create a perceived "need" where none exists and haul in the suckers. I think my female cousins get all ga-ga and weak in the knees when they see a European-style pot rack populated by a full set of matching "celebrity" cookware. There is absolutely no need of it - it's done for appearance's sake only as far as I can tell.

 

[Moonbear]

I think I'm going to get Evo that EVOO t-shirt just to drive her batty. Which leaves me wondering how many people buy something like that because they buy into the hype, and how many do it as gag gifts for people they know are really annoyed by that woman?

 

[turbo]

I think I'm going to get Evo that EVOO t-shirt just to drive her batty. Which leaves me wondering how many people buy something like that because they buy into the hype, and how many do it as gag gifts for people they know are really annoyed by that woman?

I was thinking of that as an EVO (evil gift) just for the "tweak" factor. It might be better if there was a big "Yummo" under the "EVOO" but it's pretty irritating just the way it is.

 

[Evo]

I think I'm going to get Evo that EVOO t-shirt just to drive her batty.

Which leaves me wondering how many people buy something like that because they buy into the hype, and how many do it as gag gifts for people they know are really annoyed by that woman?

That t-shirt is hideous. What an awful color, with iron on letters no less. I can't believe that anyone would buy that except as a gag.

 

[Evo]

I have never liked rice pudding. My grandmother used to make it and it was awful. I'm sure her recipe was originally used as a form of torture in the old days. At least that is what I thought every time I had to pretend I liked the sugary wall paper paste.

So earlier this week when a co-worker brought in a tub of rice pudding she had made the night before, I politely agreed to try some. I figured I could swallow a glop, tell her how great it was, then dump it in the trash when she wasn't looking.

It was delicious! It was ice cold, barely sweetened, and tasted like coconut. It reminded me of eating an almond joy bar. She makes it with coconut milk, then sprinkles a bit of fresh ground coconut over it. I ate so much of it, it made me sick.

 

[misgfool]

I have never liked rice pudding. My grandmother used to make it and it was awful. I'm sure her recipe was originally used as a form of torture in the old days.

So it was probably healthy.

So earlier this week when a co-worker brought in a tub of rice pudding she had made the night before, I politely agreed to try some. It was delicious! It was ice cold, barely sweetened, and tasted like coconut. It reminded me of eating an almond joy bar. She makes it with coconut milk, then sprinkles a bit of fresh ground coconut over it. I ate so much of it it made me sick.

And here was the opposite case.

Disclaimer:
These statements do not mean that I think torturing is healthy or advocate it in any way.