What Causes the Negative Sign in the Schwarzschild Metric Lagrangian?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding the negative sign in the Lagrangian for a test particle in the Schwarzschild metric. Participants explore the implications of the metric's signature and its effect on the equations of motion derived from the action.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to derive the equations of motion for a test particle in the Schwarzschild metric and questions the origin of the negative sign in the Lagrangian as presented in a reference book.
  • Another participant notes that with the given metric signature, the expression for the metric leads to a negative value for the integral along a timelike curve, suggesting the need for a negative sign in the Lagrangian.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the necessity of integrating over a timelike curve versus a spacelike curve, prompting a clarification that particles must move along timelike curves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of using a timelike curve for the integration in the action, but there is no consensus on the derivation of the negative sign in the Lagrangian.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the metric signature and the implications for the action integral, but does not resolve the specific derivation of the negative sign in the Lagrangian.

Identity
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I am trying to find the equations of motion for a test particle in the schwarzschild metric. However, I cannot find the correct first integral for the Lagrangian.

The Schwarzschild metric is:
[tex]ds^2 = -\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\,dt^2+\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{-1}\,dr^2+r^2\,d\theta^2+r^2\sin^2\theta\,d\phi^2[/tex]
If we look at the action, and parameterise it using [itex]s=\frac{\tau}{m}[/itex],
[tex]S=\int\,ds = \int_{\tau_i}^{\tau_f} \sqrt{g_{ab}\frac{dx^a}{d\tau}\frac{dx^b}{d\tau}m^2}\left(\frac{1}{m}\,d\tau\right)[/tex]
If we DEFINE our lagrangian to be [itex]L=\frac{1}{2}m^2g_{ab}\frac{dx^a}{d\lambda}\frac{dx^b}{d\lambda}[/itex], then
[tex]S = \int_{\tau_i}^{\tau_f} \frac{\sqrt{2L}}{m}\,d\tau[/tex]
Due to reparameterisation invariance, we can set once again set [itex]\tau=s[/itex], and in that case we get [itex]\frac{\sqrt{2L}}{m}=1\Rightarrow L = \frac{m^2}{2}[/itex].

However, in the book I'm reading, "Black Holes, White Dwarfs, and Neutron stars (Shapiro)", they have [itex]L=-\frac{m^2}{2}[/itex]. This is correct, since you need it to find the equation of motion for the test particle. However, I can't seem to get the minus sign. How does it come about?

Thanks
 
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With the signature you're using, gμνdxμ/dτ dxν/dτ is negative along a timelike curve, so you want to integrate ds = √-gμνdxμ/dτ dxν/dτ dτ
 
Thanks Bill_K, but I'm not exactly sure I understand.

By signature I'm guessing you mean
[tex]ds^2=-\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\,dt^2+\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{-1}\,dr^2+r^2\,d\theta^2+r^2\sin^2\theta\,d\phi^2[/tex]
instead of
[tex]d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)\,dt^2-\left(1-\frac{2M}{r}\right)^{-1}\,dr^2-r^2\,d\theta^2-r^2\sin^2\theta\,d\phi^2[/tex]

But when we take the action, why do we need to integrate over a timelike curve? What's wrong with integrating over a spacelike curve? After all, isn't the definition

[tex]S = \int\,ds[/tex]
 
Particles don't move along space-like curves. They must move on time-like curves.
 
ah of course. cheers
 

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