News What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

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Protests in Egypt have escalated into violence, with reports of protesters being beaten and arrested, including journalists. The unrest is characterized as significant but not an outright uprising, contrasting with the recent events in Tunisia. Rumors suggest that President Mubarak's family may have fled the country, raising concerns about potential instability. As protests continue, there are fears that the situation could worsen, particularly with a planned massive demonstration. The emergence of a leaderless youth movement is seen as a critical factor in challenging Mubarak's long-standing regime.
  • #901
Astronuc said:
Libya protests spread as barrier of fear crumbles
The son of Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi tried to intimidate Libyans Sunday, warning in a TV speech of civil war and foreign plots. But Libya's wave of democracy protests is strengthening as protesters ignore violence that has claimed more than 200 lives.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...a-protests-spread-as-barrier-of-fear-crumbles

Clinton: Gadhafi must stop bloodshed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221/ap_on_re_us/us_us_libya


Like Gadhafi is going to listen and restrain himself?

How about a no fly zone? Prevent the helicopters from firing on civilians.

Who will enforce it? It would be an act of war... even if it would be the right thing to do. Remember what we let happen that last time Algerians rose up? What... 100K people dead?

Some things we can help create, such as Libya, but we can't defuse them. BLOWBACK, although at least Libya isn't the USA's...
 
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  • #902
Ben Wedemen is INSIDE Libya.
 
  • #903
Greg Bernhardt said:
he looks like he's in a wax museum

Astronuc said:
Looks tired and pissed.

nismaratwork said:
Sure he's tired, it's hard work having to maintain that kind of harem, throwing wild parties, AND oppressing a people!


Sorry guys, this is not the time or place, but I just can’t help it: :smile:
 
  • #904
nismaratwork said:
Ben Wedemen is INSIDE Libya.

WOW! :bugeye:
 
  • #905
nismaratwork said:
Who will enforce it? It would be an act of war... even if it would be the right thing to do. Remember what we let happen that last time Algerians rose up? What... 100K people dead?

Some things we can help create, such as Libya, but we can't defuse them. BLOWBACK, although at least Libya isn't the USA's...

Again, watch the Russians very closely.
 
  • #906
WhoWee said:
Again, watch the Russians very closely.

Why? They don't have the money or training to launch anything in northern Africa.
 
  • #907
Ghaddafi just made an appearance, claiming to still be in Libya, and, "not in France."
 
  • #908
turbo-1 said:
Just a correction - the fighters were French-built Mirages, not MIGs.

http://gizmodo.com/#!5766477/libyan...-escape-to-malta-refusing-to-bomb-protesters"

nismaratwork said:
Still, the Ghaddafis must be fuming at the loss of the jets and armaments.

Probably an understatement... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_F1#Current_operators"... Gaddafi wax is probably on fire...

nismaratwork said:
Whoops! That's not a small miss...

Agree... imagine this man’s face if 'his' fighter jets are used in a "bombing genocide" by a crazy dictator...

zy_meeting_in_Toulouse_for_the_2007_French_presidential_election_0299_2007-04-12_cropped_further.jpg
 
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  • #909
nismaratwork said:
Why? They don't have the money or training to launch anything in northern Africa.

They wouldn't need much money or prep to secure Libya.
 
  • #910
nismaratwork said:
Ghaddafi just made an appearance, claiming to still be in Libya, and, "not in France."

Okay, this man has not gone to Venezuela, he has gone completely crazy.

2eg60i8.jpg


Umbrella against bombs?
 
  • #911
DevilsAvocado said:
Umbrella against bombs?

He's gone Michael Jackson!

michael-jackson-with-umbrella.jpe
 
  • #912
DevilsAvocado said:
http://gizmodo.com/#!5766477/libyan...-escape-to-malta-refusing-to-bomb-protesters"



Probably an understatement... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_F1#Current_operators"... Gaddafi wax is probably on fire...



Agree... imagine this man’s face if 'his' fighter jets are used in a "bombing genocide" by a crazy dictator...

zy_meeting_in_Toulouse_for_the_2007_French_presidential_election_0299_2007-04-12_cropped_further.jpg

HA! I was talking about that on the phone a while ago. I'm sure France is THRILLED those colonels defected, but military aircraft were used in Tripoli... Here's to hoping they're not ours. :redface:

@Greg: I think that should be added to the DSM-V as a criteria for an emergent delusional disorder:NOS. :biggrin:

Wait... under those robes and the pancake makeup... Ghaddaffi... SETEC ASTRONOMY...

:

MJ IS GHADDAFI! Michael Jackson must have been Ghaddafi's day job when he's not being the godfather of Libya... he's the godfather of POP!

Oh wait... that doesn't work. Nope, I guess they both just had fair skin... :rolleyes:
 
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  • #913
Greg Bernhardt said:
He's gone Michael Jackson!

michael-jackson-with-umbrella.jpe

:biggrin::smile::biggrin:

Thriller!
 
  • #914
Wait... if that umbrella WAS bullet resistant fabric... that wouldn't be a bad idea. Just goes to show that many problems in life are solved from the barrel of a long rifle, and the people who most deserve the payload know it.

Frankly, I'm amazed that one of his own people hasn't killed him yet.
 
  • #915
nismaratwork said:
MJ IS GHADDAFI! Michael Jackson must have been Ghaddafi's day job when he's not being the godfather of Libya... he's the godfather of POP!

Thriller10
 
  • #916
NOTE: Lacy33... I'm joking about MJ, Greg MADE me do this... he has powers. :blushing:

@DA: I love your emoticons... "Where does he get those wonderful TOYS?!" (The Joker)
 
  • #917
nismaratwork said:
Frankly, I'm amazed that one of his own people hasn't killed him yet.

Thriller: revised sequel(don’t tell anyone...:smile:)
 
  • #918
Oh lord... refugees in London are descibing the scene in Triploli...

They're using ARTILLARY against civilians. I'm so angry I can barrely type.

@DA I still find that funny.
 
  • #919
nismaratwork said:
They're using ARTILLARY against civilians. I'm so angry I can barrely type.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :cry::mad::cry::mad::cry::mad::cry::mad:
 
  • #920
nismaratwork said:
Oh lord... refugees in London are descibing the scene in Triploli...

They're using ARTILLARY against civilians. I'm so angry I can barrely type.

Ghaddafi is digging his own grave. It won't go well for him when they get to him.
 
  • #921
nismaratwork said:
MJ IS GHADDAFI!

Muammar+Gaddafi+Meets+PM+Berlusconi+Italian+xNydEleqq0Il.jpg
http://blogs.bet.com/entertainment/staytuned/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/michael-jackson1.jpg

What are you talking about? o:)
 
  • #922
I think it's time to asess where this is going, beyond the immidiate. Libya is probably lost, even to itself... what is this message going to say to the region?
 
  • #923
AP said:
Deep cracks opened in Moammar Gadhafi's regime Monday, with Libyan government officials at home and abroad resigning, air force pilots defecting and a bloody crackdown on protest in the capital of Tripoli, where cars and buildings were burned. World leaders were outraged at the "vicious forms of repression" used against the demonstrators.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7439624.html

I would hope some elements of the military move to stop those firing at civilians.
 
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  • #924
Borg said:
Ghaddafi is digging his own grave. It won't go well for him when they get to him.

He's already a dead man walking, agreed, but it may be that Libya is going to itself in civil war, as advertised. Ghaddafi... the ultimate "spoiler".

@Gokul: Now that is truly eerie. Like a couple of thin, pale Idi Amins.
 
  • #925
Astronuc said:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7439624.html

I would hope some elements of the military move to stop those firing at civilians.

It seems that the mercenaries are being... mercenary... I'm not sure that a military without command and control is going to survive that.
 
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  • #926
BEN WEDEMEN: Live on CNN as of now.

He's saying the border is utterly unguarded. The internet is down, local calls can be made but none beyond Libya. He's still in Eastern Libya however...

They believe that the military has joined them, but that they expect possible use of military aircraft against the eastern portion as well.

Does anyone know what regional C&C/SAM/AA is in Libya?
 
  • #927
Astronuc said:
I would hope some elements of the military move to stop those firing at civilians.

Agree :frown:
 
  • #928
If the military is shelling it's own people, is there a point where outside forces move into help?
 
  • #929
DevilsAvocado said:
Agree :frown:

This is the question: CAN they? They're being faced with sub-saharan African mercenaries (speaking French according to a report by Ben Wedemen), and airstrikes. My question, if the they wanted to, can do they have meaningful AA capability and any semblance of command and control left? It sounds chaotic, and that makes organized defense impossible.


Remember we know now that this man was willing to BOMB his second largest cty...


This is going to be ugly... so ugly. They seem to want Libya, or destroy it...
 
  • #930
Greg Bernhardt said:
If the military is shelling it's own people, is there a point where outside forces move into help?

The only outside forces involved now are mercenaries. Remember, that this is also a country that fosters jihaadi ideology in the worst way... who takes power here is going to be ugly no matter what.

Without Ghaddafi... there is no Libya as we know it, because he seems willing to destroy the infrastructure and return the country to a basic state.
 
  • #932
Greg Bernhardt said:
If the military is shelling it's own people, is there a point where outside forces move into help?

Libyan government role is to stabilize the country, take control over the things, and not sit idle. It's unfortunate but I don't believe Libyan government is doing worse than any other strong government (e.g. China) in similar situation.
 
  • #933
Greg Bernhardt said:
If the military is shelling it's own people, is there a point where outside forces move into help?
Anyone have a spare carrier group and corps? NATO? China?
 
  • #934
Astronuc said:
Anyone have a spare carrier group and corps? NATO? China?

That reminds me of Iraq.

Throwing out the dictator and changing their political system might open a big can of worms.
 
  • #935
nismaratwork said:
This is the question: CAN they?

I have no idea... maybe Greg is right "outside forces move into help"... the problem is that EU is not the perfect place for swift pragmatic decisions (nothing has happened since Yugoslavia)...

Uncle Sam...?
 
  • #936
Astronuc said:
Anyone have a spare carrier group and corps? NATO? China?

Has china ever helped in a battle? I was thinking some african nations could help, but they only help if it's in their backyard and they likely aren't skilled enough to handle this situation. I am considering this only if the country is lost and in chaos.
 
  • #937
Astronuc said:
Anyone have a spare carrier group and corps? NATO? China?

Phone call from Putin?
 
  • #938
Astronuc said:
Anyone have a spare carrier group and corps? NATO? China?

Yeah... we do. India would, but they're worried about Pakistan.

France could send the Charles Du Gaule... and Italy could stop ALL of this with their airforce... as could we, and NATO.


Don't be mistaken, we watched Sudan, and Rwanda... until oil stops flowing, blood will. End of story.
 
  • #939
Greg Bernhardt said:
Has china ever helped in a battle? I was thinking some african nations could help, but they only help if it's in their backyard and they likely aren't skilled enough to handle this situation. I am considering this only if the country is lost and in chaos.

Here I agree with WhoWee... Russia COULD do this if they committed to annexation; they have the force of arms. China lacks the naval carrying capacity and ability to project power in the region.
 
  • #940
rootX said:
That reminds me of Iraq.

Throwing out the dictator and changing their political system might open a big can of worms.

No might here, but it's happening with or without us.
 
  • #941
Can NATO troops be sent in?

Qaddafi is evil/crazy enough that if he is going to lose power, he'd rather see the country destroyed.
 
  • #942
Evo said:
Can NATO troops be sent in?

Qaddafi is evil/crazy enough that if he is going to lose power, he'd rather see the country destroyed.

In theory, yes, but in practice... Somalia on methamphetamine.

You're right IMO about Ghaddafi though... he seems to be the real deal: true meglomania. You don't see it that blatant, that often in times of relative peace.
 
  • #943
nismaratwork said:
No might here, but it's happening with or without us.

It might be possible if either government loses strength or people stop. I don't believe those people are strong enough for their government.
 
  • #944
rootX said:
It might be possible if either government loses strength or people stop. I don't believe those people are strong enough for their government.

Agreed... besides, who would we talk to, or deal with? OR SUPPORT? I'm not sure there is a "good guy" here... just Ghaddafi and everyone else. We're still talking about a really REALLY horrific track record, beyond Ghaddafi.

Anyway... if they can truly get airstrikes in Benghazi... it's civil war. It's madness to interfere in a civil war.
 
  • #945
nismaratwork said:
Agreed... besides, who would we talk to, or deal with? OR SUPPORT? I'm not sure there is a "good guy" here... just Ghaddafi and everyone else. We're still talking about a really REALLY horrific track record, beyond Ghaddafi.

Anyway... if they can truly get airstrikes in Benghazi... it's civil war. It's madness to interfere in a civil war.

I hope peace returns soon. More long it goes, more casualties.
 
  • #946
nismaratwork said:
Agreed... besides, who would we talk to, or deal with? OR SUPPORT? I'm not sure there is a "good guy" here... just Ghaddafi and everyone else. We're still talking about a really REALLY horrific track record, beyond Ghaddafi.

Anyway... if they can truly get airstrikes in Benghazi... it's civil war. It's madness to interfere in a civil war.

OK sorry if this is a silly question, I've not been following Libya closely this weekend. But, who are the sides in the war? Ghaddafi on one side, and who is the other? Is there an organized opposition? I can only guess Ghaddafi would have completely suppressed them inside Libya (brutally, no doubt). Are there large numbers of exiles willing to return to fight, or...?
 
  • #947
lisab said:
OK sorry if this is a silly question, I've not been following Libya closely this weekend. But, who are the sides in the war? Ghaddafi on one side, and who is the other? Is there an organized opposition? I can only guess Ghaddafi would have completely suppressed them inside Libya (brutally, no doubt). Are there large numbers of exiles willing to return to fight, or...?

I think there are two powerful tribes and rest are just unorganized protesters. I have not seen any claim that the protesters are well organized.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12523669
In another blow to Col Gaddafi's rule, two tribes - including Libya's largest tribe, the Warfla - have backed the protesters.

More background on those tribes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12528996

However, most of the information coming out of Libya is unreliable at best.
 
  • #948
lisab said:
OK sorry if this is a silly question, I've not been following Libya closely this weekend. But, who are the sides in the war? Ghaddafi on one side, and who is the other? Is there an organized opposition? I can only guess Ghaddafi would have completely suppressed them inside Libya (brutally, no doubt). Are there large numbers of exiles willing to return to fight, or...?

It's not a silly question at all, in fact it's central to this issue.

Ghaddafi united a number of tribes with showmanship, terror, and more. This is factionalized, along clan/tribal lines... which is on one hand why Benghazi is now "free". On the other hand, it's why Ghaddafi is happy to BOMB them... they're not "his people" from his view, once they defect from his "coalition".

He isn't "insane"... he's a true sociopath... a human shark. He seems happy to destroy his country before letting it go.

Now... when that happens, what will that say to Morrocco? Algeria? Egypt? Will it engrage them? Terriffy them? Send them into the arms of more autocracy, and undue their sacrifices? Worst... will there be more Somalias and Afhanistans?

At what point are sacking the library of Alexandria on a grand scale?... and what is Pakistan thinking right now...
 
  • #949
rootX said:
I think there are two powerful tribes and rest are just unorganized protesters. I have not seen any claim that the protesters are well organized.



More background about those tribes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12528996

However, Most of the information coming out of Libya is unreliable at best.

Apparantly 3 "major" tribes renounced Moamar, but that doesn't make them good for the people. Of course, given the sub-saharan mercenaries...


You're right, this has to stop, but only decisive action can do that... and who has the right or ability, AND the will? Italy and France are clear: sell to them, buy from them, kill them or ignore them when they get out of hand (see Algeria).

I do not see a good ending for Libya, and I have no CLUE what that means for the rest of the arab world... especially Iran.
 
  • #950
forget NATO. if anyone is to go, let the Brits go in. they were the ones that sold an airline bomber (of their own people) back to Libya in exchange for oil.
 

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