What Happens to Free Electrons in a Vacuum When Used with Dielectric Materials?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of free electrons in a vacuum when subjected to an alternating current (AC) between two electrode plates, with dielectric materials in between. Participants explore the implications of this setup, including the movement of electrons and the effects of different materials in the gap.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the existence of free electrons in a vacuum, prompting a discussion about the injection of electrons into the vacuum and their behavior under AC excitation.
  • Another participant suggests that free electrons would move back and forth in response to AC, similar to static charge movement.
  • It is noted that surface smoothness affects the presence of free electrons, with smoother surfaces potentially leading to fewer free electrons due to the absence of sharp points that can emit them.
  • A mention of recent advancements in cathode technology using carbon nanotubes suggests a practical application of these concepts, although the current status of such devices is uncertain.
  • Participants express curiosity about the implications of ionizing air in the gap between the electrodes, although this aspect is not fully explored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the initial question regarding the existence and behavior of free electrons in a vacuum, as some participants challenge the premise while others support it. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various concepts related to electron behavior, including the effects of surface smoothness and the potential for electron injection, but the discussion does not clarify the underlying assumptions or definitions related to free electrons in a vacuum.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electrical engineering, materials science, or physics, particularly in areas related to electron behavior in vacuum systems and dielectric materials.

Psionic
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hi everyone, I've got a question.

say i have two electrode plates placed pretty close together, with two pieces of a ceramic high dielectric constant material.. x7r class ceramics for instance, in between the two plates, with a gap in the middle of these two ceramic inserts, filled with vacuum.

like so:
| = electrode
: = high dielectric constant material.

|: :|


now, if i ran this electrode on AC, with a much higher than 120HZ source.

what would happen to any free electrons in the vacuum?

from what i understand about capacitors what would happen is that the electrons in the vacuum would be moved quite quickly across the gap, given enough voltage to normally cause an arc to form.
this processes would repeat and the electrons would move across the gap in the opposite direction, and again and again as the AC source continued. there wouldn't be that much absorption of the free electrons
since the ceramic has such a high dielectric constant.

is this correct, or am i missing something basic that would cause free electrons in the vacuum to move through the dielectrics?

similarly, what would happen when air was in the gap, and there was enough voltage to ionize the air?



thanks,

chris.
 
Last edited:
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How can there be free electrons in a vacuum? Is there something I'm missing here?
 
re: Defennder

well there could be electrons injected into the vacuum i think.. i looked up "electrons in vacuum" on google and there's lots about laser acceleration of electrons in a vacuum.

and i mean.. wikipedia dude:

'Electrons in an atom are bound to that atom, while electrons moving freely in vacuum, space or certain media are free electrons that can be focused into an electron beam'

the 'electrons moving freely in vacuum' seems to have pretty much exactly the language i stated.

pretty basic.
 
Last edited:
I suppose the free electrons would move back and forth given AC excitation. Sort of like moving static charge back and forth.
 
Electrons are not necessarily bound to the metallic surface.
Surface smoothness has a lot to do with this.
So yes free electrons are possible between capacitor plates.
This goes into the leakage parameter associated with capacitors.
As Berkeman mentions they tend to go back and forth with AC excitation.

Recently a cathode optimizing this effect, using carbon nanotubes, has been developed that allows construction of a low voltage vacuum tube without a heater.

Not entirely certain of the current status, but I think there are now some commercial devices utilizing this effect as opposed to just research only devices.
 
re: notime

thanks for the response.

would increased surface smoothness make it so that there would be less free electrons, or more?
 
Psionic said:
re: notime

thanks for the response.

would increased surface smoothness make it so that there would be less free electrons, or more?
Less.
Sharp pointy bits tend to emit free electrons.
 
"Recently a cathode optimizing this effect, using carbon nanotubes, has been developed that allows construction of a low voltage vacuum tube without a heater."

Cool. I'm lazy. Do you have a link?
 

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