What happens when an element is heated?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of heating on a pure iron bar, specifically focusing on the atomic and molecular changes that occur during thermal expansion. Participants explore various explanations for the observed expansion, including atomic separation, energy levels, and photon emission.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the expansion of iron when heated is due to the separation between the atoms increasing.
  • Another participant argues that the phenomenon is related to the energy levels of the atoms, which become excited and emit photons.
  • A later reply questions whether heating is necessary to the point of producing visible photons for thermal expansion to occur, indicating that expansion can happen at lower temperatures.
  • There is a humorous exchange regarding the emission of photons and personal anecdotes, which does not detract from the technical discussion.
  • Some participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic and the need for corrections, indicating a willingness to refine their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms behind thermal expansion, with no consensus reached on the primary cause. Some agree on the occurrence of expansion, while the explanations for it vary significantly.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which thermal expansion occurs and the specific mechanisms involved. The discussion includes references to photon emission and energy levels, but these concepts remain loosely defined and debated.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying material science, thermodynamics, or those curious about the physical properties of metals under varying temperatures.

MaterSammichM
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Let's say we have a bar of 100% pure iron.
We know that on a 'human' level- that which we can see with the naked eye, Iron (Fe) will "grow" when heated.
But on an atomic level,
Is this due to exansion of the atomic particles,
or due to a growth of the atom itself,
or due to an expansion in the area between the valence shells of the atoms?

Thanks
 
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The effect is entirely due to the separation between the atoms increasing.
 
It is not expansion/growth, it's the energy level of the atoms. They get so excited that they give off photons, much the same way I do when I see a really pretty girl.
 
Thank you Russ.
Phinds, perhaps you were joking, but yeah, the size of the metal does expand, just like it contracts when cooled sufficiently. As for your other statement, I think pharmaceuticals are available to help.
 
MaterSammichM said:
Thank you Russ.
Phinds, perhaps you were joking, but yeah, the size of the metal does expand, just like it contracts when cooled sufficiently. As for your other statement, I think pharmaceuticals are available to help.
Sorry, yeah, I was joking. I mean we both give off photons when heated but I didn't know about the expansion. Fortunately we have russ and others here to correct my boneheaded statements. Actually, the kind of pharmaceuticals I prefer just make it worse.

EDIT: I want you to notice that I managed to avoid any jokes about my own expansion under the conditions mentioned.
 
No problem. One thing though, I don't think that the metal would have to be heated to the point of producing photons (ie Red Hot) in order for thermal expansion to occur.
 
MaterSammichM said:
No problem. One thing though, I don't think that the metal would have to be heated to the point of producing photons (ie Red Hot) in order for thermal expansion to occur.
It doesn't have to be red hot to emit photons, it will do that anyway. If it is hotter than its surroundings, it will emit more than it receives and if it is cooler than its surroundings it will emit fewer than it receives, but it will emit them in any case (well, maybe not in the case of supercooling it to near zero absolute).
 
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Much appreciated Phind
 

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