What happens when two EM waves collide on matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interaction of two electromagnetic (EM) waves when they collide on matter, particularly focusing on whether their energies can combine to ionize an electron or atom. The conversation explores theoretical implications, experimental techniques, and the nature of dipole moments in relation to EM waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether two EM waves of the same frequency can superimpose on the same electron or atom to become ionizing, referencing the energy equation E = hf.
  • Another participant suggests looking into Rayleigh and Thomson scattering as relevant concepts but expresses difficulty in fully understanding the implications.
  • A later reply indicates that while both waves impart energy to an electron, this energy does not equal the sum of both waves, suggesting that two high-frequency waves may not combine to achieve ionization.
  • One participant mentions that high-intensity lasers can use multiple photons (up to ~20) to ionize a particle, referencing two-photon microscopy as an application of this principle.
  • There is a discussion about the likelihood of two random EM waves coming together to achieve ionization, with a participant noting the improbability of such an event.
  • Questions arise regarding the role of the electric (E) and magnetic (B) components of EM waves in causing dipole moments, with participants speculating on induced electric and magnetic dipole moments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the ability of two EM waves to combine energies for ionization. While some suggest that high-intensity techniques can achieve this, others remain skeptical about the feasibility of random wave interactions leading to ionization. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of dipole moment induction.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the energy transfer mechanisms involved in wave interactions, and the discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with the underlying physics concepts.

toneboy1
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I was wondering, if two EM waves of the same freq could add via superposition ON THE SAME ELECTRON or atom (at the same time) to become ionizing? For argument's sake say if each wave was just below UV

I remember E = hf, which would indicate no, I don't see how the energy would not add (thinking of mechanical waves).

THANKS!
 
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With high-intensity lasers, it is possible to do this - something like up to ~20 photons can be used to ionize a particle. Unfortunately, I do not remember the speaker of the talk where I heard about that, so I cannot give you a reference here. However, two-photon microscopy uses the same idea with 2 photons.
 
mfb said:
With high-intensity lasers, it is possible to do this - something like up to ~20 photons can be used to ionize a particle. Unfortunately, I do not remember the speaker of the talk where I heard about that, so I cannot give you a reference here. However, two-photon microscopy uses the same idea with 2 photons.

Interesting article. I had in mind two random EM waves coming together by chance but I suppose that would almost be impossibly unlikely. Moreover as to become ionising you would need like "20 photons".

By chance, do you happen to know if things like dipole moments are caused by the B part of an EM wave, or just the E half (portion) of the wave?
 
Two photons from different beams would be possible, too, just more difficult to achieve.

By chance, do you happen to know if things like dipole moments are caused by the B part of an EM wave, or just the E half (portion) of the wave?
Induced electric dipole moments? Induced magnetic dipole moments? ;)
 
mfb said:
Two photons from different beams would be possible, too, just more difficult to achieve.


Induced electric dipole moments? Induced magnetic dipole moments? ;)

Quite so.
 

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