News What Idea Shapes Your Political Philosophy?

[Mercator]

What I am saying here is that the enlightenment …
Had I realized you were a youngster, I would have been less gruff in my comment.
In my youth, I was an “enlightened” ultra liberal and voted for JFK and LBJ. I can’t describe the elation I felt when LBJ won all but 6 or 7 states in the ’64 election.
The “enlightenment of humanity” is a phrase that will have as many meanings as there are human inhabitants of this planet. It cannot be defined, as you have discovered, so one cannot plan a course to achieve it. Platitudinal and negative phrases dominate liberal writing and are difficult to criticize. The phrase “Bush is an idiot” is an opinion, I cannot disprove an opinion but I can opine that the writer lacks intelligence. I cannot be against the concept of everyone receiving a “real education”, I might favor the concept if I knew what it was.
As far as Socialism, you will be hard pressed to find a viable socialist economy. I suggest you review the stagnant economies of Germany and France v. the economy of India. You may find that India began to prosper when the government removed the shackles of a planned economy, as did the UK under Mrs. Thatcher. The once touted French health care system proved itself unable to tend to the needs of 14000 of its citizens who died during a recent heat wave. Compare the results of President Clinton’s economic policies to those of President Carter. Compare the position of the USA to that of the EU re: a democratic Muslim nation (Turkey) being permitted to join the EU. I submit the EU is more racist than the US; that they simply have not faced the problem before (ignoring the ever prevalent anti-Semitism). Marx’s scapegoat (leftist writers always need a scapegoat) was Judaism. He equated Judaism with capitalism, not the religion. The modern scapegoats are, the corporation, oil, capitalism, individuality, the wealthy, Christianity, Judaism, Islam and the most evil of all nations, the USA.

Geniere, Geniere. Yes, I'm sure any German would sofort for the Indian style of living... Gutter health care and one meal a day if you're lucky. The country is a total mess with here and there an island of relative prosperity. A life is worth nothing. In chemical factories workers do their job without protective clothing, loading dangerous chemicals with buckets in drums, with naked hand and feet! The GDP growth is 7% per year. Which means that a few of the upper kastes get 7 % richer. Give it another fifty years and the Indian economy might surpass ... the Spanish for example.

Oh, and can you link to that racism meter? You know, when children have a problem, they always point at others first?

 

[kat]

An individuals equal right to liberty and the existence of universal moral truths.

 

[kat]

I believe that the spirit if not the letter of the constitution has been violated by the aforementioned loopholes. The States have become dependant on the Fed for money, which results in expanded and unintended federal powers. Now, since the Federal Government is funded by taxes, it seems to me that the Federal tax rate is the problem. We give the Feds money who then give it back to the State, and in doing so we surrender the State's autonomy, and in some cases, personal liberties. One example of this was the 55 MPH Federal speed limit which was enforced with the threat of withholding Fed funds. It seems to me that this situation needs to be corrected. The fed has far too much influence.

...never thought you and I would agree so strongly on any single ideal...wow, spoken like a true conservative

 

[Zlex]

One Skin; One Driver.

 

[Lisa!]

Right now world peace, but as soon as I grow up enough, I would realize I must be loyal to "what's best for me". (right now I think "world peace is the best for all included me")

? What democratic Muslim nation has recently joined the USA ?
(nah, don't say "Iraq" )

Do we have any democratic Muslim nation other than Iraq and perhaps Afghanistan?

 

[Skyhunter]

We are one.

 

[Lisa!]

Who are you?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...never thought you and I would agree so strongly on any single ideal...wow, spoken like a true conservative

I volunteered for the Reagan campaign. Given the same circumstances I probably wouldn't now, that is my views have changed, but GHWB and son and the influx of the extreme right is what made a Democrat out of me.

 

[Smurf]

Do we have any democratic Muslim nation other than Iraq and perhaps Afghanistan?

Isn't the US still supporting that dictatoship in Burma?. I'm fairly sure there's a sizable muslim minority there.

edit: oh, democratic. never mind.

 

[russ_watters]

Lets add the US for a laugh... Hmm why is thre GDP so high yet there is such poverty? (Figures taken from CIA fact book)

Two reasons: first, the difference between capitalism and socialism means countries like France have a much higher unemployment rate, but much lower poverty. It's a tradeoff.

Second, the poverty line in the US is pretty strict. Comparing one country to another is difficult without comparing where the line is.

 

[Anttech]

Second, the poverty line in the US is pretty strict.

As it is in the EU... Show me evidence that its any difference, I doubt it is.

I aggree with your first point, but France isn't pure socialism, just more than the states is.. France has a large private sector just like in US, and there are many skilled Jobs just like in the States (perhaps there will be more if your Companies keep looking at that bottom line and move more and more Jobs to India)

 

[Astronuc]

Now, since the Federal Government is funded by taxes, it seems to me that the Federal tax rate is the problem.

State and local governemnts are funded by taxes too. Some states like Texas and Alaska have benefitted very well from oil revenue. That works well, but not for most states.

We give the Feds money who then give it back to the State, and in doing so we surrender the State's autonomy, and in some cases, personal liberties.

That's not such a bad thing necessarily, except when the state becomes dependent. However, there are significant disadvantages with respect to funding the inherent Federal and State bureaucracies. There are similar situations also in private industry as well - intermdiaries who do nothing but project administration, and who collect generous fees or salaries (overhead), but add not value to the final product/project.

One example of this was the 55 MPH Federal speed limit which was enforced with the threat of withholding Fed funds.

That's not so bad - everyone across the country participates, and it did save money and help reduce the trade imbalance. And it did tend to save lives - fewer people died in high speed automobile accidents.

It seems to me that this situation needs to be corrected. The fed has far too much influence.

That has been partially corrected. The Federal government has been spending less on some states (e.g. NY) and more on private industry - look at the war in Iraq - Halliburton, Titan, CACI, . . . .

Oh, and the taxes in NY state went up to offset the reduction in Federal revenue. The people of NY actually have received less from the Fed government than they have cumulatively contributed in taxes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

That's not so bad - everyone across the country participates, and it did save money and help reduce the trade imbalance. And it did tend to save lives - fewer people died in high speed automobile accidents.

I agreed with the reasoning but not the method of implementation. There are many good ideas that would undermine Constitutional rights. For example, in the interest of public safety, wouldn't it make sense to allow random searches? In this light we not in danger of hitting the slippery slope, rather we have already slid to the bottom of the hill and now stare into the abyss.

 

[loseyourname]

Personally, I think we'd be better off, and it seems that I'm agreeing with Ivan here, if the federal government was financed entirely by the taxing of interstate commerce and we paid all of our personal taxes to the states themselves. This would work fine if we limited the federal government to the domains alloted to it when the nation first began - basically, national defense, negotiation with foreign entities, and regulation of interstate and international commerce. The states themselves could carry out other functions, including those currently carried out by the fed, with far less bureaucracy.

Of course, we would run into one glaringly obvious problem - the disparity in quality of life from state to state would widen. For instance, poor states like Mississippi and Arkansas would have very little money to spend relative to wealthy states like California and Wyoming (I know we don't typically think of Wyoming, but in terms of state revenue per resident, it is very high on the list). This could perhaps be rectified by some voluntary level of revenue sharing like what we see in Major League Baseball - or simply as seen on the international stage in the form of wealthier countries giving aid to poorer countries.

 

[Smurf]

Wouldn't interstate tax still be 'tariffs'. Doesn't that go against your capitalist "free market" stuff.

 

[Skyhunter]

Who are you?

You misunderstood, I wasn't answering your question. That is the idea I am most loyal to.
WE ARE ONE

 

[loseyourname]

Wouldn't interstate tax still be 'tariffs'. Doesn't that go against your capitalist "free market" stuff.

And? I'm a pragmatist, smurf. There is absolutely no chance of completely abolishing the federal government, which is the only thing we could do if they had no source of funding whatsoever. I suppose they could try to raise money through some means other than taxation, but they would be the first government that I've ever known of to do so.

 

[GENIERE]

As it is in the EU... Show me evidence that its any difference, I doubt it is.
I aggree with your first point, but France isn't pure socialism, just more than the states is.. France has a large private sector just like in US, and there are many skilled Jobs just like in the States (perhaps there will be more if your Companies keep looking at that bottom line and move more and more Jobs to India)

Outsourcing is indeed a problem for the US. IMO it eventually will prove to be beneficial. What the US needs most is wealthy trading partners having citizens enjoying comparative wages. Given time, a global free market will create wealth for all the citizens of the world to enjoy
In a world market, to my knowledge, a nation has two means to acquire capital, selling goods and services, and attracting investment capital from other governments and foreign private investors. In the US, we have a large trade deficit that is negated by an even larger inflow of investment capital i.e., our debt is financed externally. The US has been the economic engine of the entire world for more than 60 years while steadily increasing its national debt. I suspect the US can only sustain the world’s economy for another decade or so. Europe is not pulling its weight, which leaves only China and India to spur future growth.
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/05/1252&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
Lisbon Agenda:
The EU invests about a third less in research than the US, and the EU/US innovation gap has not narrowed in recent years. Meanwhile, emerging countries like China and India are fast becoming world-class centres of research and innovation. To address this challenge, the Commission has tabled an integrated innovation/research action plan, which calls for a major upgrade of the conditions for research and innovation in Europe. It launches ambitious initiatives to promote innovation and research, such as redeployment of state aid, improved efficiency of intellectual property protection, mobilisation of additional funds for research, creation of innovation poles, and improving university-industry partnerships…
I opine the plan will be a failure, that innovation will not occur in a society made complacent by the false guarantee of government provided largess.

 

[GENIERE]

? What democratic Muslim nation has recently joined the USA ?
(nah, don't say "Iraq" )

None that I know of but for Turkey I would be willing to trade San Fransisco, Berkely, Los Angeles, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia Eagles, Dallas Cowboys, Washington Redskins, Google Corp, Carter, Clinton(s) and Quebec. If Carter and Clinton are deal killers, I'll substitute three kilos of lard.

 

[Mercator]

The ability to love.

 

[GENIERE]

...The GDP growth is 7% per year. Which means that a few of the upper kastes get 7 % richer.

Probably the Germans would be content with that growth rate.

I can't support my opinion but I believe India's economy will outperform China's. Either way I hope both succeed.

 

[Skyhunter]

None that I know of but for Turkey I would be willing to trade San Fransisco, Berkely, Los Angeles, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia Eagles, Dallas Cowboys, Washington Redskins, Google Corp, Carter, Clinton(s) and Quebec. If Carter and Clinton are deal killers, I'll substitute three kilos of lard.

Willing to trade away part of your country?

Not much of am American are you?

 

[Smurf]

Willing to trade away part of your country?
Not much of am American are you?

Not only that. he'd try and sell quebec too

 

[Lisa!]

You misunderstood, I wasn't answering your question. That is the idea I am most loyal to.
WE ARE ONE

Sorry for that! At first I thought you weren't answering to my ironic question but then...

 

[loseyourname]

None that I know of but for Turkey I would be willing to trade San Fransisco, Berkely, Los Angeles, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia Eagles, Dallas Cowboys, Washington Redskins, Google Corp, Carter, Clinton(s) and Quebec. If Carter and Clinton are deal killers, I'll substitute three kilos of lard.

Something's fishy here. If you're selling the 'Skins, 'Boys, and Eagles, you must be a Giants fan, but you're also selling New York. A Jersey boy?

 

[Smurf]

WE ARE ONE

so what does that mean?

 

[GENIERE]

Something's fishy here. If you're selling the 'Skins, 'Boys, and Eagles, you must be a Giants fan, but you're also selling New York. A Jersey boy?

Good work constable! When I was a young, but corporations tend to move you around quite a bit.

 

[Mercator]

Probably the Germans would be content with that growth rate.
I can't support my opinion but I believe India's economy will outperform China's. Either way I hope both succeed.

Any mature economy would, but it's not going to happen.

What's happening in China is spectacular. But as well as in India, you see Capitalism in it's harshest form. Shanghainese are already notorius for their heartlessness, exploiting people from other provinces and treating them like s***. It's appaling and some of the things I see here are as close to slave work as it can get.

India I know less, I just know that I would not like to live or work there. Last time I had Indian visistors here, we had to bring them to three different hotels in three different cars, just because they belong to a different kaste.

But there's a chance you could be right about India/China. My guess is that in the end it will be decided by beliefs. India's poor do not protest their inhumane treatment, religion has paralyzed them. But the growing inequality will sooner or later cause serious problems in China. It's already happening in fact. The peasants see what riches are accumulating in the big centres and compare it to their miserable lives and THEY have been told they were equal and have no controlling religion in place that keeps them from taking what they think is theirs.

 

[Skyhunter]

so what does that mean?

We are all part of the same whole. We are one.

 

[Smurf]

We are all part of the same whole. We are one.

Yeah, I got that. But in what sense are we "one", what exactly are we "one" of?

 

[Skyhunter]

Yeah, I got that. But in what sense are we "one", what exactly are we "one" of?

That is the question that all of the philosophers, theologians, and scientists are trying to answer. In a word, Eternity.

 

[Smurf]

That is the question that all of the philosophers, theologians, and scientists are trying to answer. In a word, Eternity.

Great. Now how bout in a paragraph?

 

[Skyhunter]

Great. Now how bout in a paragraph?

Everyone and everything belongs.

Society should strive to assure every individual the freedom and opportunity to find their place. I don't know how society will get there. Presently I am not sold on any particular ideology. I am willing to consider any idea, so long as it does not contradict that premise.

 

[Smurf]

Everyone and everything belongs.
Society should strive to assure every individual the freedom and opportunity to find their place. I don't know how society will get there. Presently I am not sold on any particular ideology. I am willing to consider any idea, so long as it does not contradict that premise.

You're supposing a person has a predefined 'place' in which they will fit, or perhapse more than one to choose from, and that any individual can not necessarily be happy in any 'place'. Correct?

 

[Skyhunter]

You're supposing a person has a predefined 'place' in which they will fit, or perhapse more than one to choose from, and that any individual can not necessarily be happy in any 'place'. Correct?

And some can be happy almost anywhere.

So many in the world today do not have their basic needs met, while others live extravagantly. I don't believe that one should not be allowed to enjoy wealth, I just feel that if the commonwealth was utilized more for the common good we would all be happier. And we all would enjoy more opportunity to find our path, whether or not we ever reach a place that truly suits us.

 

[Entropy]

I'm loyal to Jehovah's Witnesses so techniquely I'm supposed to be politically neutral, although I find it pretty hard to do sometimes. Summing up JW's stance on politics is pretty straight forward: We don't get invovled in politics or government unless it is directly effecting our freedom to participate in our religion. We also don't believe mankind will ever achieve world peace on its own.

 

[Smurf]

Do you vote?

 

[Entropy]

We don't vote for several reasons. One main reasons is if we voted our opinion, let's say against abortion (which we are) then we would in affect be forcing our believes on to someone else, the Bible teaches otherwise. We are suppost to convince people of the truth (hence all the door-to-door witnessing), not force them into accepting reasoning they don't understand. Also, we're simply against politics in general, I'd quote some passages from the Bible to support my point but I don't feel it's appropreate.

 

[Smurf]

We don't vote for several reasons. One main reasons is if we voted our opinion, let's say against abortion (which we are) then we would in affect be forcing our believes on to someone else, the Bible teaches otherwise. We are suppost to convince people of the truth (hence all the door-to-door witnessing), not force them into accepting reasoning they don't understand. Also, we're simply against politics in general, I'd quote some passages from the Bible to support my point but I don't feel it's appropreate.

I have so much more respect for JW's now. Please, quote away. Or perhapse we should start another thread in the religion subforum, I'd love to hear more.

 

[Entropy]

I have so much more respect for JW's now. Please, quote away. Or perhapse we should start another thread in the religion subforum, I'd love to hear more.

Well, I can't afford to get anymore marks, I'm not going to risk getting in trouble (I accidentally kept posting a thread after it had been deleted and I didn't realize a mentor PM'ed me about it) if one of the mentors doesn't want me posting quotes from the Bible. Also, I thought the religion subforum was deleted.

 

[Smurf]

Everyone and everything belongs.
Society should strive to assure every individual the freedom and opportunity to find their place. I don't know how society will get there. Presently I am not sold on any particular ideology. I am willing to consider any idea, so long as it does not contradict that premise.

You know that's a very functionalist perspective, almost Vaneschian.

 

[Skyhunter]

You know that's a very functionalist perspective, almost Vaneschian.

Perhaps I should read the threads where you and Vanesch discussed ideology.

 

[Smurf]

Nah, I can give you an overview of both our positions if you want though.

 

[Skyhunter]

Nah, I can give you an overview of both our positions if you want though.

Sure, that would be acceptable to me, and Vanesch could always object if you mischaracterize his position.