What if the Higgs is not found by LHC and Tev, nor anything else

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the implications of not finding the Higgs boson at the LHC or Tevatron, suggesting that if the Higgs or a similar mechanism is absent, it would lead to violations of unitarity in weak force interactions. This scenario raises questions about the validity of quantum mechanics (QM) and the potential need for a reformulation of fundamental theories. Alternatives such as Technicolor models and the exploration of neutrino condensates or dark energy are proposed as possible explanations for electroweak symmetry breaking (EWB) without the Higgs. The conversation also highlights the significance of supersymmetry (SUSY) and its theoretical underpinnings, emphasizing that the absence of the Higgs would not negate the Standard Model but rather challenge its completeness.

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  • Understanding of Electroweak Symmetry Breaking (EWB)
  • Familiarity with Quantum Mechanics (QM) principles
  • Knowledge of Supersymmetry (SUSY) and its implications
  • Awareness of Technicolor models and their role in particle physics
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  • Research the implications of unitarity violation in weak force interactions
  • Explore Technicolor models and their predictions for LHC energies
  • Study the role of neutrino condensates in electroweak symmetry breaking
  • Investigate the latest developments in Supersymmetric Yang-Mills Theories and Gauge/Gravity Duality
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Particle physicists, theoretical physicists, and researchers interested in the foundations of quantum mechanics and the future of particle physics research.

  • #31
tom.stoer said:
It depends what you call gluons.

If you restrict this term to massless plane wave states of the gluon field, then I agree. But if you construct the QCD Hilbert space of physical states as the Fock space restricted by the Gauss law constraint in order to ensure gauge invariance, then you can construct color singulet "gluonic" operators on this space; you have a generic description of what "gluons" are, namely states in this physical subspace created ny gluonic operators. Of course the plane wave states are no longer part of this physical subspace as they violate the Gauss law.

So when I am talking about gluons I do not restrict them to plane waves (as seen in deep inelastic scattering = in the limit of asymptotoc freedom) but I mean the full, non-perturbative gluon field in QCD.

I agree with your non-perturbative definition. Now, I have to suppose that some dependence on the coupling is in these states. You should recover ordinary plane wave description when the coupling goes to zero. The states you get when the coupling goes to infinity are massive. This I mean by a gluon getting a mass. Classically you can see this in the following way. Let us consider the massless scalar field with equation

\partial^2\phi+\lambda\phi^3=0.

This has an exact solution

\phi(x)=\mu\left(\frac{2}{\lambda}\right)^\frac{1}{4}{\rm sn}(p\cdot x+\theta,i)

being sn a Jacobi elliptic function, \mu and \theta two integration constants. This holds provided the following dispersion relation holds

p^2=\mu^2\left(\frac{\lambda}{2}\right)^\frac{1}{2}

and so this massless field, due to the presence of a finite self-interaction, gives a massive solution. When you take the limit of the coupling going to zero you recover the ordinary perturbed massless field. Classically, you observe a similar situation for the Yang-Mills field provided the gauge coupling is taken to go to infinity.
 
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  • #32
there is no evidence that the hiiggs boson actually exists, the master equation says so but supposably the higgs could just be a version of the tangled up calibi-yau spaces or effects of a different kind of gravity
saying thius i personly agree that the higgs exists, but i am just outlining other possibilitys.
we canjnot simply decide quantum mechanis is wrong unless we try and look at in a different way if we don't find it. :)
 
  • #33
ensabah6 said:
if e-w symmetry, SUSY symmetry, antimatter-matter symmetry can be broken, couldn't chiral symmetry be broken?

The problem with mass in the SM is that chiral symmetry is broken. The SU(2) interaction in the EW sector only "sees" left chiral fermion fields; but, Dirac mass terms necessarily involve both right and left chiral fields (in a chirally symmetric way). Thus, a Dirac mass cannot be SU(2) invariant. The solution in the SM is to spontaneously generate fermion masses using the same mechanism that spontaneously breaks the SU(2) symmetry.
 
  • #34
ensabah6 said:
Technicolor models offer ways to break EWB that do not involve higgs, but do predict new observations at LHC energies.

Based on precision WW scattering, unitarity would be violated without the Higgs mechanism.

So if the Higgs, or something that plays its role, is not found, unitarity is violated which may mean QM needs to be revised.

If the Higgs, or something like it, is not found at LHC/TEV what would be the most Nobel-prize winning route

1- reformulate QM,
2- QM is wrong, unitarity is not preserved
3- maybe there is no true Electro-weak unification
4- consider other sources of Higgs field like neutrino condensates? perhaps dark energy?
5 perhaps preons or all particles are composites?


Maybe NOT finding the Higgs is a lot like not finding the luminerous aether.

GHOST FIELD

One could consider just a background ghost field (term) which is useful in the calculations, but has no physicality to it.
 

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