What is double integral by interpretation?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of double and triple integrals in relation to single integrals, exploring their analogies and applications in mathematics and physics. Participants examine how these integrals can represent areas, volumes, and other quantities, while also addressing misunderstandings regarding their dimensional implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that a double integral can be interpreted as the area under a ramp, while a triple integral can represent volume.
  • Others argue that the dimensions associated with integrals depend on the integrand and the limits of integration, leading to varying interpretations.
  • A participant points out that double and triple integrals are not necessarily tied to area and volume, respectively, and could represent other quantities like mass or work.
  • There is a discussion about the dimensionality of integrals, with some claiming that certain integrals yield dimensions that may not align with conventional interpretations.
  • Participants express uncertainty about whether integrals can be analogously interpreted in the same way as single integrals, with some asserting that they cannot be directly compared.
  • Misunderstandings arise regarding the notation and dimensional representation of integrals, leading to clarifications about the meaning of dx, dy, and dz in the context of integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of double and triple integrals, with multiple competing views remaining on their analogies to single integrals and their dimensional implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the integrands and the contexts in which these integrals are applied. The interpretations of integrals as area, volume, or other quantities remain unresolved and depend on specific conditions.

vjacheslav
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Very simple question for you, friends.
As is well known, usual integral has interpretation as square under function's graphic.
Then, what is double (and triple) integral by analogue?
Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
vjacheslav said:
Then, what is double (and triple) integral by analogue?
Say

f(x) = k. ( a constant)

g(x) = ∫ f(x) dx = k*x. ( a ramp ).

h(x) = ∫ g(x) dx = ½*k*x2. ( a polynomial ).

So ∫∫ f(x) dx2 is the area under the ramp.

Within physics you could say ( a = acceleration , v = velocity , p = position ):

v(t) = ∫ a(t) dt

p(t) = ∫ v(t) dt

So p(t) = ∫∫ a(t) dt2

Often triple integrals are used to calculate volume, e.g. the volume of a ball = 4/3 * π * r3 ( 3 dimensions ).
 
Thanks, Hesch!
But seems like you interchange the double and triple integral by second and third polynomial power...
 
vjacheslav said:
But seems like you interchange the double and triple integral by second and third polynomial power...
No, the integrals of second and third order are separated examples ( stand alones ).
Just ask again if I have misunderstood your comment.
 
Some misunderstood arised, as I see. Double = dxdy triple = dxdydz ,
no second and third order, sorry.
 
You are absolutely right. I should have pointed that out.

And speaking of a volume of a ball, it could be calculated by a double integral, but I hope you understand the idea in calculating volumes generally.
( 3 dimensions: dxdydz ).
 
So Int(f(x)dx) = 2 dim
Accordingly to you
Int(f(x,y,z)dxdydz) = 3 dim
and the very question is
Int(f(x,y)dxdy) = ? dim
 
vjacheslav said:
So Int(f(x)dx) = 2 dim
Accordingly to you
Int(f(x,y,z)dxdydz) = 3 dim
and the very question is
Int(f(x,y)dxdy) = ? dim
It depends on the integrand. A triple integral with an integrand of 1 would give the volume (three dimensions) of the region over which integration is performed. A double integral could also give the volume of some region if the limits of integration represented an area and the integrand represented the height of the region.

Iterated integrals (either double or triple) don't necessarily have to represent area and volume, respectively. They could represent the mass of some three-dimensional solid, as well as many other possible applications of these integrals.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Hesch
Grateful for you answer, but it still remains discussible. For ex, integrand 1 (f(x) as I see?) taken on dxdydz. How many dims it will give in answer? f(x)dx = 2 dim and f(x)dxdydz = 4 dim.
Am I mistaken?
 
  • #10
vjacheslav said:
Grateful for you answer, but it still remains discussible. For ex, integrand 1 (f(x) as I see?) taken on dxdydz. How many dims it will give in answer? f(x)dx = 2 dim and f(x)dxdydz = 4 dim.
Am I mistaken?
Yes, in many cases. dx, dy, and dz typically represent length dimensions, but the integrand function does not have to have a length dimension associated with it. As I mentioned before, an integral could represent something other than length, area, or volume. For instance, it could represent the amount of work done, the mass of a three dimensional region, as well as many other possible interpretations.
 
  • #11
Whatsoever single integral represent, Int(f(x)dx) = Square under function's graphic, isn't it? Could double or triple integral represent such an analogy?
 
  • #12
vjacheslav said:
Whatsoever single integral represent, Int(f(x)dx) = Square under function's graphic, isn't it?
Again, not necessarily. An integral ##\int_a^b f(x) dx## is a number. It doesn't have to represent area. As I said before, it could represent the amount of work done in moving something from x = a to x = b, or it could represent the average value of a function (if in the form ##\frac 1 {b - a} \int_a^b f(x) dx##. It could represent volume if f(x) is the cross-sectional area. It could represent the total charge along a conductor if f(x) represents the charge density per unit length.

The bottom line is that an integral such as this does not necessarily represent area.
vjacheslav said:
Could double or triple integral represent such an analogy?
 
  • #13
So nothing could be found by analogy? Pity, but I will try still in nearest future.
And now let's close the theme.
Thanks to everybody committed!
 
  • #14
vjacheslav said:
Some misunderstood arised, as I see. Double = dxdy triple = dxdydz
A double intgral could be dxdx = dx2 and a triple integral could be dxdxdx = dx3.

So I don't see why #2 isn't an analogy?
Hesch said:
So p(t) = ∫∫ a(t) dt2
Thus the known formula: s = ½at2
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K