What is the charge of each conductor afterwards?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of two identical conductors brought into contact, where one conductor has an initial charge of +30 x10^(-6) C. Participants explore whether the other conductor is neutral and how the charge redistributes upon contact, questioning the implications of the contact method.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the assumption that the second conductor is neutral and whether charge will equalize between the two conductors. There are considerations about the effects of asymmetrical contact and the implications of conductor shape on charge distribution.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with some participants agreeing with initial interpretations while others raise concerns about the simplicity of the charge distribution. Various perspectives on the effects of contact configuration and conductor shape are being explored, indicating a productive dialogue without clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There is ambiguity in the problem statement regarding the initial charge of the second conductor and the nature of the contact. Participants note that the problem does not specify whether the conductors are brought into contact symmetrically, which may affect the outcome.

  • #31
rude man said:
I was looking into the Uniqueness theorem in electrostatics, which says (I think) that if the potential of the connected conductors were known, the E field would everywhere be unique. And a unique E field implies unique surface charge.
The snag is that we have not shown that the potential of the connected conductors is the same irrespective of how contact is made. I suppose the prima facie belief is that it is not, that V varies with how contact is made. :sorry:
I agree that the overall potential is likely to depend the configuration, but this is quite a different question, right? If it does depend on the configuration, it could still turn out that the two charges are equal, and even if it is independent of configuration the charge split could differ for the same potential.

Edit: As an indicator that the potential does depend on configuration, consider a large number of identical spheres. Arranged as a tight ball the potential would be more than when arranged as a spherical shell.
The same model says the charges will be different for different spheres in the tight ball.
Showing these results for two objects will be tougher.
 
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  • #32
If connecting two similar charged rods in two different ways always resulted in the same ensemble potential, then you could slide one rod against another without losing contact until you get the same juxtaposition for both connecting ways. Then by the uniqueness theorem the charge distributions would have to be the same since potential and juxtaposition would be the same. Unfortunately, I guess there would be two differing ensemble potentials so the Q distributions would also differ.
 
  • #33
rude man said:
If connecting two similar charged rods in two different ways always resulted in the same ensemble potential
Yes, but I think it's easy to see that it won't. Placed side by side would surely create a higher potential than end to end. Likewise a pair of plates.
 
  • #34
haruspex said:
Yes, but I think it's easy to see that it won't. Placed side by side would surely create a higher potential than end to end. Likewise a pair of plates.
Not obvious to me, but no argument either.
 
  • #35
rude man said:
Not obvious to me, but no argument either.
This paper, http://www.colorado.edu/physics/phys3320/phys3320_sp12/AJPPapers/AJP_E&MPapers_030612/Griffiths_ConductingNeedle.pdf, gives exact expressions for charge distribution in and equipotentials near an infinite thin ribbon. See section I
V.
It should be possible to compare two such ribbons placed edge to edge (doubling λ and a) with placing them face to face (doubling λ only).
 
  • #36
Here's another example that I think supports the conjecture that the congruent conductors do not need to end up with equal charges.

Consider a thin-walled conical conductor
upload_2017-9-1_11-49-30.png


If you put charge on this, then I believe that most of the charge will be located on the outer surface. Very little charge will be on the inner surface, especially if the apex angle is small. But I don't know how to prove this.

Now slip an identically shaped, uncharged conductor inside of the charged one until they touch.
upload_2017-9-1_11-54-4.png


This is almost like a single conical conductor. So, most of the charge should remain on the outer surface of the outer conductor.

This example is not meant as a proof, but I think it is suggestive.
 
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