What is the derivation of the radial acceleration in Kepler's 1st Law?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of radial acceleration in the context of Kepler's 1st Law, specifically using Newton's Universal Law of Gravity to demonstrate elliptical orbits. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of acceleration in polar coordinates and its implications for orbital mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the expression for radial acceleration, questioning how it is derived and its equivalence to Cartesian forms of acceleration.
  • Another participant states that the expression for radial acceleration is a general form in polar coordinates, suggesting it is analogous to Cartesian coordinates but more complex.
  • Several participants discuss the relationships between the unit vectors in polar coordinates, specifically how changes in the radial and angular unit vectors relate to each other, raising questions about the negative sign in the derivative of the angular unit vector.
  • One participant introduces the concept of the Runge-Lenz vector, suggesting it provides a more elegant understanding of the conic sections of orbits derived from the Kepler problem.
  • A later reply provides a detailed mathematical derivation of the velocity and acceleration vectors in polar coordinates, projecting them onto a curvilinear orthonormal basis, and discusses the equations of motion derived from these calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing preferences for approaches to the problem, with some favoring a more mathematical perspective while others engage in clarifying the underlying principles. There is no consensus on a single method or interpretation of the radial acceleration derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the derivation involves complex relationships between radial and angular components, and there are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made in the derivations and the implications of the negative sign in vector changes.

Forcino
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TL;DR
Using Newton's Universal Law of Gravity to prove an elliptical orbit.
When proving that Newton's Universal Law of Gravity will produce an elliptical orbit, the radial acceleration is confusing to me. Can someone please explain how the radial acceleration is equal to d^2/dt^2 - r(d x theta / dt)^2. Could someone please detail how that acceleration is derived? Thank you. Here is a link to the proof http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/301/lectures/node155.html
 
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Forcino said:
Summary:: Using Newton's Universal Law of Gravity to prove an elliptical orbit.

When proving that Newton's Universal Law of Gravity will produce an elliptical orbit, the radial acceleration is confusing to me. Can someone please explain how the radial acceleration is equal to d^2/dt^2 - r(d x theta / dt)^2. Could someone please detail how that acceleration is derived? Thank you. Here is a link to the proof http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/301/lectures/node155.html

That's just the general form of acceleration in polar coordinates. It's the equivalent of ##a_x = \ddot x , \ \ a_y = \ddot y## in Cartesian coordinates. But not so simple!

See here for example:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronau...fall-2009/lecture-notes/MIT16_07F09_Lec05.pdf
 
Thank you. I have looked at that site before.

Can you explain why this is true der = dθeθ, and that deθ = −dθer (from the top of page 2)? I can't really see that from the diagram.
 
Forcino said:
Thank you. I have looked at that site before.

Can you explain why this is true der = dθeθ, and that deθ = −dθer (from the top of page 2)? I can't really see that from the diagram.

I prefer the alternative, "more mathematical" approach on the next page.
 
A very elegant trick is to know that the Kepler problem has an additional dynamical symmetry, leading to the conservation of the socalled Runge-Lenz vector, which immediately leads to the conclusion that the orbits are conical sections (ellipses for ##E<0##, parabolas for ##E=0##, and hyperbolas for ##E>0##). The Runge-Lenz vector is given by
$$\vec{Q}=\frac{1}{\gamma m_1 m_2} \dot{\vec{r}} \times \vec{L} -\frac{\vec{r}}{r}.$$
Here
$$\vec{L}=\mu \vec{r} \times \dot{\vec{r}}$$
with ##\mu=m_1 m_2/(m_1+m_2)## is the angular momentum in the center-of-mass frame.
 
Last edited:
PeroK said:
I prefer the alternative, "more mathematical" approach on the next page.
Thank you for writing. I am working on understanding the acceleration in polar form. I see that der = dθeθ. 1. Am I correct in saying that means that a small change in the unit vector in the r direction is equal to a small change in the angle in the theta direction? I see that deθ = −dθer. 2. Am I correct in saying that means that a small change in the angle vector equals a small change in the angle in the angle in the r vector direction? 3. Why is the negative sign there?
 
Forcino said:
Thank you for writing. I am working on understanding the acceleration in polar form. I see that der = dθeθ. 1. Am I correct in saying that means that a small change in the unit vector in the r direction is equal to a small change in the angle in the theta direction? I see that deθ = −dθer. 2. Am I correct in saying that means that a small change in the angle vector equals a small change in the angle in the angle in the r vector direction? 3. Why is the negative sign there?

That's not how I would put it. The correct terminology is "derivatives of the radial and angular unit vectors".

See the derivation on the page under the note: Alternative calculation of the unit vector derivatives.

What you have above is these derivatives in differential form.

The negative sign arises naturally from the differentiation. It's not something the author has added as an afterthought!
 
Ok, just let's do the simple math. Let's assume we argued from Kepler's 2nd Law, which is nothing else than the conservation of angular momentum that the orbit is in a plane perpendicular to the angular-momentum vector, and now we introduce polar coordinates. The Cartesian coordinates are given by the polar coordinates as
$$\begin{pmatrix} x \\ y \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} r \cos \varphi \\ r \sin \varphi \end{pmatrix}.$$
From this we calculate the velocity vector,
$$\begin{pmatrix} v_x \\ v_y \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} \dot{x} \\ \dot{y} \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} \dot{r} \cos \varphi - r \dot{\varphi} \sin \varphi \\ \dot{r} \sin \varphi + r \dot{\varphi} \cos \varphi \end{pmatrix},$$
and the acceleration
$$\begin{pmatrix} a_x \\ a_y \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} \dot{v}_x \\ \dot{v}_y \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} \ddot{r} \cos \varphi -2 \dot{r} \dot{\varphi} \sin \varphi -r \dot{\varphi}^2 \cos \varphi -r \ddot{\varphi} \sin \varphi \\ \ddot{r} \sin \varphi + 2 \dot{r} \dot{\varphi} \cos \varphi +r \ddot{\varphi} \cos \varphi -r \dot{\varphi}^2 \sin \varphi \end{pmatrix}.$$
Now it's easy to project the vectors to the curvilinear orthonormal basis,
$$\vec{e}_r=\partial_r \vec{x}=\begin{pmatrix} \cos \varphi \sin \varphi \end{pmatrix}, \quad \vec{e}_{\varphi} = \frac{1}{r} \partial_{\varphi} \vec{x}=\begin{pmatrix} -\sin \varphi \\ \cos \varphi \end{pmatrix}.$$
You get
$$a_{r} = \vec{e}_r \cdot \vec{r} = \ddot{r}-r \dot{\varphi}^2, \quad a_{\varphi}=r \ddot{\varphi} + 2 \dot{r} \dot{\varphi}.$$
The force is
$$\vec{F}=-\frac{\gamma m M}{r^2} \vec{e}_r,$$
and thus the equations of motion read
$$\ddot{r}-r \dot{\varphi}^2=-\frac{\gamma M}{r^2}, \quad r \ddot{\varphi} + 2 \dot{r} \dot \varphi=0.$$
Of course, we already now that the angular momentum is conserved, i.e.,
$$\ell=m (x \dot{y}-y \dot{x})=m r^2 \dot{\varphi}=\text{const}.$$
Indeed, taking the derivative of this equation wrt. time, you get the 2nd equation of motion (the ##\varphi##-component).

I think the rest of the calculation is really very nicely explained in the linked manuscriped of posting #1, though I think it's much more elegant to use the Runge-Lenz vector ;-).
 

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