What is the Distribution of IQ Scores Among Gifted Individuals?

[Evo]

What is a "problem child" to you, then?

a child that intentionally acts unruly/violent (running around, screaming, destroying things), is obnoxious, a bully.

 

[zoobyshoe]

a child that intentionally acts unruly/violent (running around, screaming, destroying things), is obnoxious, a bully.

OK. I have definitely heard it used that way. I've probably erroneously assumed an extention of the term to include any kid with a substantial personality or behavioral problem. So, if we go by this definition then the term "problem child" is incorrect when applied to "gifted" children.

 

[Evo]

OK. I have definitely heard it used that way. I've probably erroneously assumed an extention of the term to include any kid with a substantial personality or behavioral problem. So, if we go by this definition then the term "problem child" is incorrect when applied to "gifted" children.

Except when the gifted child is also a problem child.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Except when the gifted child is also a problem child.

Yes, and labeling some one a "gifted" child is pretty much like saying "I got good news, and I got bad news. Your child is gifted. That's the good news..."

 

[Artman]

I asked this same question when I first started to post here.

I got the same kind of responses. We know it is a number and that it has no real value other than perception, so why is there so much reluctance to tell us? It's obvious this is a site frequented by intelligent people, people who probably test well. I think it would be interesting to hear the numbers.

Mine was tested in grade school. I believe it was around 120. Not terribly high, but I remember being sick the day of the test (plagued by asthma and allergies, which I finally outgrew). I was also given a test as a small child (5 or 6 years old) that took several weeks and was administered by a psychologist (I was balking at going to school because of playground violence and a mean teacher, my parents were worried and had me tested). He said I was brilliant, almost a genius.

Come on people, I wrote down my 120. What are your meaningless numbers?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Come on people, I wrote down my 120. What are your meaningless numbers?

Apropos:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104341

 

[Evo]

I also confess to having been a gifted child. I think my IQ is 158, I was told by the counselor at school it was 185, but trying to sneak a peak at the upside down paperwork she had, it looked like 158 to me. The schools that they had my parents look into for me (since they said they had no programs that could accommodate me) had a minimum entrance criteria of 140.

That wiki article describes me very accurately. I refused to play with other children because I felt they were stupid and immature. I would hide during recess so I could read. In the third grade I completed the entire school year's assignments and tests that were in our workbooks by the end of the third week of school. My teacher was upset and from then on they kept my books away from me and only handed them to me when I needed to do something in them. I would sit and listen to the other kids in the class struggling and I was bored to tears, I wanted to scream. A teacher explained to me that she couldn't teach two classes and since the others couldn't keep up with me, I had to slow down.

As a result, I hated school, dreaded it, my mother would ususally have to drag me to school. It wasn't until the school hired a new teacher (my 6th grade teacher) and she noticed I was "unusual" and requested testing, that they freaked out and everything changed, but it was too late, I wanted nothing to do with any school.

Glad that there are more programs now for kids that are "different" and fewer will have to go through what I did.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Evo, did you have this particular sensitivity:

Gifted children are often bothered by the seams in socks and tags on clothes.

 

[Evo]

Evo, did you have this particular sensitivity:

OH GOD YES! Even little wrinkles in the sheets and on my pillowcase drove me nuts.

Noise, light & activity all bother me. I like darkness and silence. I can't stand to have background noise of any type.

At work, they have installed special shades over the lights in the ceiling over my desk for me.

 

[marlon]

I'm sure there a ton of gifted people here.

There are a lot of gifted people here. Gifted means you are just smart enough to realize you ain't no genius. Most educated people will belong to this group. Even most college professors and phd students, like myself...

regards
marlon

 

[zoobyshoe]

OH GOD YES! Even little wrinkles in the sheets and on my pillowcase drove me nuts.
Noise, light & activity all bother me. I like darkness and silence. I can't stand to have background noise of any type.
At work, they have installed special shades over the lights in the ceiling over my desk for me.

What about this, then:

Underachievement

Another problem often associated with giftedness is underachievement. Many gifted students will continually do well on achievement or reasoning tests, but will fail to turn in assignments or attend or participate in class. Overall, they will be disengaged from the educational process. This can result from under-challenging schools, peer pressure for conformity, social isolation, and family dysfunction (Reis & Renzulli, 2004). In other cases it can result from other factors within the individual, including depression, anxiety, failure-avoidance, rebelliousness, irritability, nonconformity, or anger (Reis & McCoach, 2002). One apparently effective way to attempt to reverse underachievement in gifted children includes enrichment projects based on students’ strengths and interests (p. 86).

Did you find yourself "dumbing - down" for any of these reasons?

 

[nazgjunk]

Well, to get back to the topic: i had one or two iq tests in my life. The first one I made when i was seven, and i was horribly nervous, so that wouldn't be altogether representative. It said i had somewhere near 130 if i remember it right.
The second one i am not sure of, I made it but I am not sure if it was an iq test. I had to make it for school to be selected into some program for above-average kids. I never got any results from that one, but I am in that program now, however without doing a thing with it.

 

[Evo]

What about this, then:"Underachievement

Another problem often associated with giftedness is underachievement. Many gifted students will continually do well on achievement or reasoning tests, but will fail to turn in assignments or attend or participate in class. Overall, they will be disengaged from the educational process."

Once I left elementary school, I stopped participating. I no longer cared. First year I got incompletes in several classes because of it, had to go to summer school, got jumped ahead by the school a few times to try to get me into a more appropriate level.

Did you find yourself "dumbing - down" for any of these reasons?

No, I just avoided talking and associating with other people. Everyone thought I was shy and introverted. (waiting for the zooby diagnosis)

 

[Artman]

Did you find yourself "dumbing - down" for any of these reasons?

That was me. I never did homework. If I did, I blew test curves. The class got mad at me.

 

[Blahness]

@Artman: I tend to blow up the test curves as well. "Listen up class, the class average was a 52. Ryan, you've got a 97. We're counting his as an A, and grading on a curve based on that."

It's like, oh WTF, DO YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE MY SOCIAL LIFE EVEN WORSE?

Teachers... -.-''

@Evo: For some reason, I'm the same way. When unoccupied, do your hands bend/shred whatever they can hold on to?

And yes, the kids at my school are retards. It's like, "Uh, what's a genome?" WE JUST EXPLAINED IT!

Isolationism = me.
Anyway, back (on topic? lol), IQ is meaningless, but they've never tested me, though I got perfect A's in classes, and they wrote "Does not attempt to pass class" or something stupid like that. Sigh, now I'm stuck doing boring, meaningless work in school, which takes hours to do, but has no educational value at all. "Cut out paper and form a DNA molecule!"? I've not got time for that, I'm looking at the molecular structures of different bases, and what kind of interactions can take place.

Maybe if I were challenged, I'd actually TRY to do the work.

Oh well, back to pre-final super-homework(WHY GOD WHY?), So that I can blow off the study guide and get a 98% or higher in my finals.
Hey Evo, here's an idea: how about us smart people split off from the poisons of TV and Culture, and form our own cult/society/something like that? Get away from the idiots in politics and such, and live a life of learning! >_>Anyway, That's just my self-centered rant, enjoy.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Once I left elementary school, I stopped participating. I no longer cared. First year I got incompletes in several classes because of it, had to go to summer school, got jumped ahead by the school a few times to try to get me into a more appropriate level.

I'm surprised, actually. I would never have thought you'd have incompletes, or anything but A+'s across the board.

No, I just avoided talking and associating with other people. Everyone thought I was shy and introverted. (waiting for the zooby diagnosis)

This one doesn't surprise me so much. You don't strike me as someone who'd put on an act just to have people to hang out with.

Of course, no zoobie can diagnose you over the internet. I will have to perform a complete set of zoobological tests in person, as well as the full body examination for tattoos.

 

[Evo]

I'm surprised, actually. I would never have thought you'd have incompletes, or anything but A+'s across the board.

The incomplete was for days absent from class, not for grades.
My algebra teacher was responsible. She cornered me one day in a huff waving a test paper in my face where I scored 110% (bonus questions). She said I was not going to just show up for tests because it made it look like she wasn't teaching me anything (she wasn't). She said she couldn't fail me because of my scores, so she was going to give me an incomplete due to the number of days I missed, she tried to get all of my other teachers to do the same. All but a couple, like my english teacher, agreed. My english teacher actually went through my desk and found all of my assignments I hadn't turned in and graded them. She said she was only going to give me a "B" instead of an "A" because I should've turned the work in. I wish I had more teachers like her that understood. I wasn't defying them or disrespecting them, well maybe except for my witch algebra teacher.

Of course, no zoobie can diagnose you over the internet. I will have to perform a complete set of zoobological tests in person, as well as the full body examination for tattoos.

When should I report?

When unoccupied, do your hands bend/shred whatever they can hold on to?

No, my hands stay still.

Hey Evo, here's an idea: how about us smart people split off from the poisons of TV and Culture, and form our own cult/society/something like that?

Actually a group of kids I met when I was 12 suggested that. A new girl two years older than I was moved in down the street. She was so smart! Through her I met other super smart kids. I mean these kids were borderline insane smart. Made me realize how little I really knew. We would all meet and discuss and trade books. I was just in awe of them, they knew so much more than I did. To me, that is the best feeling in the world, to be surrounded by people I can learn from. That's why I love it here.

 

[Blahness]

@Evo: So, when do we pack our bags? "

 

[Evo]

@Evo: So, when do we pack our bags? "

We're already there, look around at the people on this forum. I am just floored by the knowledge that some of the people here have, and they don't make me feel like a complete idiot just because I don't know as much as they do, and it's so great that they share their knowledge with me. :!)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, academically, I can't hold a candle to anyone here over the age of 8.

Blahness, don't get discouraged, don't set a trap for yourself. When you set yourself above others, you only have farther to fall. I was lucky, I went into the workforce at a time when a person that was motivated and smart could quickly work their way up. It is much tougher out there now to even get your foot in the door so that you can prove yourself. Take advantage of your intelligence and keep challenging yourself and don't worry that others don't get it as quickly as you do.

 

[zoobyshoe]

She said I was not going to just show up for tests because it made it look like she wasn't teaching me anything (she wasn't).

It made her look like she wasn't teaching you anything. These things just come out of people's mouths as if they're have no idea what they're saying.

When should I report?

A "tongue" smiley, Evo? You make it look like zoobology is silly. Automatic incomplete!

 

[Artman]

@Artman: I tend to blow up the test curves as well. "Listen up class, the class average was a 52. Ryan, you've got a 97. We're counting his as an A, and grading on a curve based on that."

It's like, oh WTF, DO YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE MY SOCIAL LIFE EVEN WORSE?

Yep. "I can't mark this on a curve because someone got every question right." Then he hands you your paper and says, "Good job." At which point the three kids within arms reach of the back of your head smack you with a piece of rolled up paper.

Most of the time I just did what interested me. Like the semester I spent reading art books instead of doing my expository writing term papers.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Yep. "I can't mark this on a curve because someone got every question right." Then he hands you your paper and says, "Good job." At which point the three kids within arms reach of the back of your head smack you with a piece of rolled up paper.
Most of the time I just did what interested me. Like the semester I spent reading art books instead of doing my expository writing term papers.

Wow, you are amazing Evo. I wish I was 'gifted'.

 

[Evo]

Wow, you are amazing Evo. I wish I was 'gifted'.

That was Artman.

 

[zoobyshoe]

That was Artman.

So, Artman has just been your sock puppet the whole time!

 

[Artman]

So, Artman has just been your sock puppet the whole time!

She just has to peal me off her legs to use me.

 

[zoobyshoe]

She just has to peal me off her legs to use me.

Quiet Evo! I'm talking to Evo.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I am curious. What do most scientists feel about IQ tests? Are IQ tests dismissed widely by the scientific community, is it is hot button issue, or are they widely accepted?

 

[Artman]

Quiet Evo! I'm talking to Evo.

and her lips never move while I talk.

By the way, Evo and I think Dooga's question is a good one.

 

[Gale]

i've gone to reply to this post 3 times now... ugh... i keep accidently deleting my posts...

anyway, to shorten everything I've said, i know ALL about underacheivement, and i suffer from it greatly. in my opinion its not something to joke about. i thought so when i was younger, but now that I'm trying to get over it, its been one of the largest hurdles of my life. the mindset and habits are horrible to break. i nearly dropped out of high school myself. my mum and i actually went to the principle ready to sign the paper work when my mum mentioned to me that i'd been accepted to Umass. (she'd been hiding it from me, because we honestly believe dropping out was the best option for me, but then at the last minute she decided to tell me about my acceptance so i could make an informed decision.) .. in the end i decided to negotiate with the principle afterall.

at any rate my iq i always just based on my dads. he was tested and scored a 120. its generally well accepted that I'm much more gifted than my dad was, so i just assume I'm somewhere in the high 130's. i could be slightly more or less. but i figure beyond a certain point it doesn't matter how high it is, you know?

 

[Moonbear]

Yep. "I can't mark this on a curve because someone got every question right." Then he hands you your paper and says, "Good job." At which point the three kids within arms reach of the back of your head smack you with a piece of rolled up paper.

Oh, that happened to me in math class in 6th grade. I was out of class for something else and missed a quiz. I came back, and was given the quiz (the questions were given orally, but the answers were written). Nobody said anything, but I sort of noticed the whole class was watching me take the quiz instead of doing the assignment they were supposed to be working on. After a series of questions, the teacher gave me a crazy problem, something like, "68397608 x 3976789 = ?" and as I scribbled down the numbers to solve it, the teacher told me he was just joking on that one. Then he graded it, and I got 100%, at which time the whole class groaned...apparently he was going to drop the quiz grade (or at least some of the questions...I don't remember exactly) because everyone else bombed it, but was waiting for me to take it first. Since I got them all right, he decided to count it anyway. The kids in that school were pretty stupid though. They reassigned our districts between 5th and 6th grades, and I switched schools in 6th grade. Up until then, I was in the group of smarter students, but was sort of average among them (a few of my friends always scored better than I did). I never thought I was that smart then because plenty of students did as well as I did. Then, in 6th grade, I was suddenly the top student in the class and nobody else was even close. It didn't exactly make it easy to make friends in a new school. But a year later I was in junior high and back with my old friends again, who I used to compete with for the highest score over 100% in science class...our teacher was a push-over for giving bonus/extra credit questions on every assignment (it was good to have a whole bunch of like-minded geeks in school with me). That was also the year when highlighter markers became popular and my notebooks were highlighter madness. I never studied, but by gosh, everything sure was highlighted, in four different colors no less!

I did have an IQ test done in school, but nobody would ever tell me my score.

 

[zoobyshoe]

anyway, to shorten everything I've said, i know ALL about underacheivement, and i suffer from it greatly.

I'm not sure, from having read a few of your past posts about it, that you not living up to your potential is from the same cause as the "gifted" kids. It seems in your case that an underlying case of depression interferred with your concentration. I know that that's like. It seems to me that's different than losing interest because everything is too easy and non-challenging. Nothing is particularly easy for me to learn. I never have the problem of boredom because it's not challenging enough. Depression, though, can remove my desire to put out any effort because I feel that even if I did learn something, it wouldn't help anything.

 

[Gale]

I'm not sure, from having read a few of your past posts about it, that you not living up to your potential is from the same cause as the "gifted" kids. It seems in your case that an underlying case of depression interferred with your concentration. I know that that's like. It seems to me that's different than losing interest because everything is too easy and non-challenging. Nothing is particularly easy for me to learn. I never have the problem of boredom because it's not challenging enough. Depression, though, can remove my desire to put out any effort because I feel that even if I did learn something, it wouldn't help anything.

my depression in a lot of ways stemmed from my underacheiving in school. I was an underacheiver long before i had manic depression, (which I've since learned is what i have.) i really do learn too easily, which was my problem in schoool, and still is now, especially in math, and then i'd lose interest. in middle and elementary school, it was especially that way. Heh, actually, in 6th grade, i boycotted homework on the grounds that i was capable of acing exams without it, and i therefore shouldn't need to do it at all. Lots of parent teacher conferences about that one... at any rate, I'm real certain I'm an underacheiver, and its not surprising that a lot of 'gifted' kids, who end up underacheiving end up with depression. you get a pretty odd sense of self esteem when you know you're clever but you're always doing poorly. or knowing that everyone else around you is struggling, and you find it too easy. and the worst is when you find a subject you like, and your class goes just way too slow, so at first you try to go off on your own, but then realize its all for nothing because no one really cares if you go above and beyond, as long as you meet the requirements.

 

[BobG]

I've never taken an IQ test, but at least I was an underachiever.

I had wildly varying grades. We had three grading periods, plus a final each semester for a total of four grades averaged to get your semester grade. I took a little perverse pride the first time I was able to hit all four non-failing grades in one semester for a single course.

All in all, I wound up graduating in the bottom fourth of my class, but it was a good school. I was kind of surprised to find a GPA of around 2.7/2.8 could rank so low.

I never quite fit in at school. In our city, the idea was to avoid busing by having each school specialize in something and allowing families to pick which school they wanted to send their kid to. My high school's special programs were pre-engineering and pre-med. In practice, most of the kids were pretty well to do and lived in the same area as the school while I was one of the imported students.

Add to that that I was a hick from Kansas (it's really bad if you live in "Akron, Ohio, capital of West Virginia" and people think you're a hick). The first week I lived there, one of the more friendly students kept introducing people to me, but he couldn't remember where I was from. He kept asking, "Did you say you're from Parma?" (a town outside of Cleveland). When I'd respond that I was from Kansas in that Kansas twang, they'd break out laughing. It wasn't until I finally watched the Friday night "Big Chuck and Hoolihan" show that I realized the reason he kept asking if I was from Parma (a Polish suburb of Cleveland) was because of my white socks (that really was the style in Kansas back then, seriously).

I put a little more of myself into my job at an ice cream parlor where I worked with kids I had a little more in common with.

I never took an IQ test, but I won an award for the alphabet soup pre-SAT (NMSQT/PSAT?) and a language test, and scored extremely high on my SATs. My first semester at college, they encouraged me to get into the honor's program in spite of my high school GPA. I made the honor roll my first semster, then dropped out and hitch hiked to California. I also aced my ASVABs when I joined the Air Force, scoring 99's across the board.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Once I left elementary school, I stopped participating. I no longer cared. First year I got incompletes in several classes because of it, had to go to summer school, got jumped ahead by the school a few times to try to get me into a more appropriate level.
No, I just avoided talking and associating with other people. Everyone thought I was shy and introverted. (waiting for the zooby diagnosis)

Actually, I just found out something. My mom said I took an iQ test in 1st grade. They said I was mentally retarded. They said my IQ was 80-90. Hahahahaha

Yeah, I'm retarded. DuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhRRRRRRRRRRR

I have depression. I had a 3.8 GPA in school, but I feel like it was never enough. Now, I'm retarded. I was very good in math, but they made me take geometry in middle school, and this was not my level at the time. However, I did very good in math at high school, and understood the principles, where most only understood how to do them. I'm also interested in foreign language (I study japanese and spanish), philopsy, physics. I am very analyitcal, like most people here. I had thee best grade this year in science. A 120 percent. The best of all the periods.

I also have trouble making friends. I'm sure many here would agree, I am retarded (i.e not smart for my age, I'm 17), most teenagers agree I an eccentric.

 

[QuantumTheory]

I'm not sure, from having read a few of your past posts about it, that you not living up to your potential is from the same cause as the "gifted" kids. It seems in your case that an underlying case of depression interferred with your concentration. I know that that's like. It seems to me that's different than losing interest because everything is too easy and non-challenging. Nothing is particularly easy for me to learn. I never have the problem of boredom because it's not challenging enough. Depression, though, can remove my desire to put out any effort because I feel that even if I did learn something, it wouldn't help anything.

Ugh, algebra was 'easy for me'. But calculus is hard when you don't know how to do advanced algebra welll, and havne taken trig, pre calc.