What is the Distribution of IQ Scores Among Gifted Individuals?

[zoobyshoe]

She just has to peal me off her legs to use me.

Quiet Evo! I'm talking to Evo.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I am curious. What do most scientists feel about IQ tests? Are IQ tests dismissed widely by the scientific community, is it is hot button issue, or are they widely accepted?

 

[Artman]

Quiet Evo! I'm talking to Evo.

and her lips never move while I talk.

By the way, Evo and I think Dooga's question is a good one.

 

[Gale]

i've gone to reply to this post 3 times now... ugh... i keep accidently deleting my posts...

anyway, to shorten everything I've said, i know ALL about underacheivement, and i suffer from it greatly. in my opinion its not something to joke about. i thought so when i was younger, but now that I'm trying to get over it, its been one of the largest hurdles of my life. the mindset and habits are horrible to break. i nearly dropped out of high school myself. my mum and i actually went to the principle ready to sign the paper work when my mum mentioned to me that i'd been accepted to Umass. (she'd been hiding it from me, because we honestly believe dropping out was the best option for me, but then at the last minute she decided to tell me about my acceptance so i could make an informed decision.) .. in the end i decided to negotiate with the principle afterall.

at any rate my iq i always just based on my dads. he was tested and scored a 120. its generally well accepted that I'm much more gifted than my dad was, so i just assume I'm somewhere in the high 130's. i could be slightly more or less. but i figure beyond a certain point it doesn't matter how high it is, you know?

 

[Moonbear]

Yep. "I can't mark this on a curve because someone got every question right." Then he hands you your paper and says, "Good job." At which point the three kids within arms reach of the back of your head smack you with a piece of rolled up paper.

Oh, that happened to me in math class in 6th grade. I was out of class for something else and missed a quiz. I came back, and was given the quiz (the questions were given orally, but the answers were written). Nobody said anything, but I sort of noticed the whole class was watching me take the quiz instead of doing the assignment they were supposed to be working on. After a series of questions, the teacher gave me a crazy problem, something like, "68397608 x 3976789 = ?" and as I scribbled down the numbers to solve it, the teacher told me he was just joking on that one. Then he graded it, and I got 100%, at which time the whole class groaned...apparently he was going to drop the quiz grade (or at least some of the questions...I don't remember exactly) because everyone else bombed it, but was waiting for me to take it first. Since I got them all right, he decided to count it anyway. The kids in that school were pretty stupid though. They reassigned our districts between 5th and 6th grades, and I switched schools in 6th grade. Up until then, I was in the group of smarter students, but was sort of average among them (a few of my friends always scored better than I did). I never thought I was that smart then because plenty of students did as well as I did. Then, in 6th grade, I was suddenly the top student in the class and nobody else was even close. It didn't exactly make it easy to make friends in a new school. But a year later I was in junior high and back with my old friends again, who I used to compete with for the highest score over 100% in science class...our teacher was a push-over for giving bonus/extra credit questions on every assignment (it was good to have a whole bunch of like-minded geeks in school with me). That was also the year when highlighter markers became popular and my notebooks were highlighter madness. I never studied, but by gosh, everything sure was highlighted, in four different colors no less!

I did have an IQ test done in school, but nobody would ever tell me my score.

 

[zoobyshoe]

anyway, to shorten everything I've said, i know ALL about underacheivement, and i suffer from it greatly.

I'm not sure, from having read a few of your past posts about it, that you not living up to your potential is from the same cause as the "gifted" kids. It seems in your case that an underlying case of depression interferred with your concentration. I know that that's like. It seems to me that's different than losing interest because everything is too easy and non-challenging. Nothing is particularly easy for me to learn. I never have the problem of boredom because it's not challenging enough. Depression, though, can remove my desire to put out any effort because I feel that even if I did learn something, it wouldn't help anything.

 

[Gale]

I'm not sure, from having read a few of your past posts about it, that you not living up to your potential is from the same cause as the "gifted" kids. It seems in your case that an underlying case of depression interferred with your concentration. I know that that's like. It seems to me that's different than losing interest because everything is too easy and non-challenging. Nothing is particularly easy for me to learn. I never have the problem of boredom because it's not challenging enough. Depression, though, can remove my desire to put out any effort because I feel that even if I did learn something, it wouldn't help anything.

my depression in a lot of ways stemmed from my underacheiving in school. I was an underacheiver long before i had manic depression, (which I've since learned is what i have.) i really do learn too easily, which was my problem in schoool, and still is now, especially in math, and then i'd lose interest. in middle and elementary school, it was especially that way. Heh, actually, in 6th grade, i boycotted homework on the grounds that i was capable of acing exams without it, and i therefore shouldn't need to do it at all. Lots of parent teacher conferences about that one... at any rate, I'm real certain I'm an underacheiver, and its not surprising that a lot of 'gifted' kids, who end up underacheiving end up with depression. you get a pretty odd sense of self esteem when you know you're clever but you're always doing poorly. or knowing that everyone else around you is struggling, and you find it too easy. and the worst is when you find a subject you like, and your class goes just way too slow, so at first you try to go off on your own, but then realize its all for nothing because no one really cares if you go above and beyond, as long as you meet the requirements.

 

[BobG]

I've never taken an IQ test, but at least I was an underachiever.

I had wildly varying grades. We had three grading periods, plus a final each semester for a total of four grades averaged to get your semester grade. I took a little perverse pride the first time I was able to hit all four non-failing grades in one semester for a single course.

All in all, I wound up graduating in the bottom fourth of my class, but it was a good school. I was kind of surprised to find a GPA of around 2.7/2.8 could rank so low.

I never quite fit in at school. In our city, the idea was to avoid busing by having each school specialize in something and allowing families to pick which school they wanted to send their kid to. My high school's special programs were pre-engineering and pre-med. In practice, most of the kids were pretty well to do and lived in the same area as the school while I was one of the imported students.

Add to that that I was a hick from Kansas (it's really bad if you live in "Akron, Ohio, capital of West Virginia" and people think you're a hick). The first week I lived there, one of the more friendly students kept introducing people to me, but he couldn't remember where I was from. He kept asking, "Did you say you're from Parma?" (a town outside of Cleveland). When I'd respond that I was from Kansas in that Kansas twang, they'd break out laughing. It wasn't until I finally watched the Friday night "Big Chuck and Hoolihan" show that I realized the reason he kept asking if I was from Parma (a Polish suburb of Cleveland) was because of my white socks (that really was the style in Kansas back then, seriously).

I put a little more of myself into my job at an ice cream parlor where I worked with kids I had a little more in common with.

I never took an IQ test, but I won an award for the alphabet soup pre-SAT (NMSQT/PSAT?) and a language test, and scored extremely high on my SATs. My first semester at college, they encouraged me to get into the honor's program in spite of my high school GPA. I made the honor roll my first semster, then dropped out and hitch hiked to California. I also aced my ASVABs when I joined the Air Force, scoring 99's across the board.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Once I left elementary school, I stopped participating. I no longer cared. First year I got incompletes in several classes because of it, had to go to summer school, got jumped ahead by the school a few times to try to get me into a more appropriate level.
No, I just avoided talking and associating with other people. Everyone thought I was shy and introverted. (waiting for the zooby diagnosis)

Actually, I just found out something. My mom said I took an iQ test in 1st grade. They said I was mentally retarded. They said my IQ was 80-90. Hahahahaha

Yeah, I'm retarded. DuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhRRRRRRRRRRR

I have depression. I had a 3.8 GPA in school, but I feel like it was never enough. Now, I'm retarded. I was very good in math, but they made me take geometry in middle school, and this was not my level at the time. However, I did very good in math at high school, and understood the principles, where most only understood how to do them. I'm also interested in foreign language (I study japanese and spanish), philopsy, physics. I am very analyitcal, like most people here. I had thee best grade this year in science. A 120 percent. The best of all the periods.

I also have trouble making friends. I'm sure many here would agree, I am retarded (i.e not smart for my age, I'm 17), most teenagers agree I an eccentric.

 

[QuantumTheory]

I'm not sure, from having read a few of your past posts about it, that you not living up to your potential is from the same cause as the "gifted" kids. It seems in your case that an underlying case of depression interferred with your concentration. I know that that's like. It seems to me that's different than losing interest because everything is too easy and non-challenging. Nothing is particularly easy for me to learn. I never have the problem of boredom because it's not challenging enough. Depression, though, can remove my desire to put out any effort because I feel that even if I did learn something, it wouldn't help anything.

Ugh, algebra was 'easy for me'. But calculus is hard when you don't know how to do advanced algebra welll, and havne taken trig, pre calc.

 

[Evo]

Actually, I just found out something. My mom said I took an iQ test in 1st grade. They said I was mentally retarded. They said my IQ was 80-90. Hahahahaha
Yeah, I'm retarded. DuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhRRRRRRRRRRR

Scoring poorly an on IQ test only means you didn't do well on the test. I can tell from your posts that it's not possible for you IQ to be that low.

I wouldn't pay any attention to IQ tests and just do your best, sounds like you are doing ok, but do get help for the depression, that can really make things so much more difficult than they need to be. Depression is not to be taken lightly.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Scoring poorly an on IQ test only means you didn't do well on the test. I can tell from your posts that it's not possible for you IQ to be that low.
I wouldn't pay any attention to IQ tests and just do your best, sounds like you are doing ok, but do get help for the depression, that can really make things so much more difficult than they need to be. Depression is not to be taken lightly.

But I'm stupid right, I don't know as much as other normal teenagers?

 

[Evo]

But I'm stupid right, I don't know as much as other normal teenagers?

I doubt you're stupid and if you suffer from depression, that could have a lot to do with things like memorization, attention span, motivation. Stop comparing yourself to others.

 

[QuantumTheory]

I doubt you're stupid and if you suffer from depression, that could have a lot to do with things like memorization, attention span, motivation. Stop comparing yourself to others.

What I'm trying to say is do I know a lot for my age?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't think 80-90 is anywhere near "retarded". It's below average, but that could easily be a spin off of the depression. From what you said about having problems with reading comprehension I'd guess it was your verbal skills that dragged the score down. That's another reason I was mentioning Asperger's earlier. They have trouble with reading comprehension and word meaning in general. But like Evo said, depression can have the same net effect because of loss of concentration.

 

[QuantumTheory]

No, I was 7 years old at the time. I didn't have depression at 7. My verbal skills were good. I am retarded.

 

[QuantumTheory]

If this means anything, I was in Special Ed my whole life. I rode the short bus. I was in special ed with english in high school middle school. It was for comprehension, one time i was in math, but it was too easy

You people are geniuses and I'm an idiot

 

[zoobyshoe]

If this means anything, I was in Special Ed my whole life. I rode the short bus. I was in special ed with english in high school middle school. It was for comprehension, one time i was in math, but it was too easy
You people are geniuses and I'm an idiot

Not me. I had my I.Q. tested in 6th or 7th grade and was pronounced "average".

 

[QuantumTheory]

Not me. I had my I.Q. tested in 6th or 7th grade and was pronounced "average".

Well average is better than below average. I won't deny it, I'm stupid.

 

[Smurf]

No, I was 7 years old at the time. I didn't have depression at 7. My verbal skills were good. I am retarded.

Really? I'm above average intelligence. That makes you 10 times more likely to be president one day.

 

[QuantumTheory]

Really? I'm above average intelligence. That makes you 10 times more likely to be president one day.

Please elaborate? Yeah, really. I don't belong on this forum, either. Which is why I'm not going to post here anymore. People only try to argue with me, disapprove of what I say, etc. They also think I'm stupid for my age.

 

[Smurf]

Please elaborate? Yeah, really. I don't belong on this forum, either. Which is why I'm not going to post here anymore. People only try to argue with me, disapprove of what I say, etc. They also think I'm stupid for my age.

It was a joke. Someone who's less intelligent is more likely to be president.. the president is dumb... get it?

And I'm only 1 year older than you.

 

[QuantumTheory]

It was a joke. Someone who's less intelligent is more likely to be president.. the president is dumb... get it?
And I'm only 1 year older than you.

Yeah I get it, I'm stupid.

 

[Math Is Hard]

QT, why do you keep saying "people here think I am stupid for my age"? I've seen this in a couple of your posts. Are you thinking of a specific post? If so, you should report it. Personal insults are not permitted on these forums.
Is it possible that your HQ (humor quotient) is what is lacking? Smurf was trying to kid around with you in the last posts but you distorted it into an insult. He was being friendly.

 

[JasonRox]

Yeah, QT just cheer up.

Being in Special Ed is no big deal. I was in it during Grade 3-4, and Grade 8, and I have no clue why.

For Grade 3-4, they found that I was too eager to learn. I had a million "why" questions, but not stupid ones. I guess I was just curious of what was going on in my environment. And no, this wasn't enough to make my parents realize that I love to learn, and that doing poorly in school does not correlate to hating to learn.

For Grade 8, I personally I have no clue at all why.

Anyways, I went on and did poorly through high school, and ended having my parents telling me I'm heading nowhere. So um... thanks for the support.

So, what happened?

I ended up going to college for business anyways (LUCKILY!) and I outshined myself in a more than one way. I ended up hating business, but because of my big turn around in academic records, I had no problems entering university for mathematics. So, of course, I'm back to my parents saying I'm heading nowhere because math sucks. Again... thanks for the support.

Now, I'm proud to say that I'm much more than an A student, and I now have the intentions to do even more, especially with all the free time!

All I have to say is that being in Special Ed does not imply stupidity. Amazingly enough, I somehow got to tutor students in Special Ed during high school. I must say, the bad kids are dumb either.

Cheer up! Life is FUN!

Note: I have no idea what my IQ is. I'm kind of afraid to find out.

Note for MIT: I'm happy you won the Community Spirit Award.

 

[Leonardo Sidis]

As a 14 year old, I have ADD and struggle to concentrate on one thing for a while. How profound would the effect be on an official IQ test. I've taken many in my life, and as you can see by my name, I have an odd obsession with learning about the capabilities of the human mind (Leonardo Da Vinci and William James Sidis both have IQ's estimated to have been 250-300. Yes I know I didn't believe it at first either, but if what I've read about Sidis is true, then the number seems accurate). I used to read for hours about this every day. I eventually ran out of free online IQ tests that I haven't taken, and began to buy books with tests. My obsession doesn't concern the score as much as it does the relation between the question, answer, and the mind.

When I was in 3rd grade (I am in 9th now), my teacher recommended I take the IQ test to qualify for the gifted program at my school (I assume it was Stanford-Binet, as my score on the test varies less with other Stanford-Binet scores than it does with Cattell). Weeks after the test, I was informed that I passed, and looked forward to participating in the gifted program the following year. However, in 4th grade, the first three weeks passed without me going to the gifted class, and I was informed that somehow my results were lost. Since they could not prove that I had passed, I had to take the test again, conscious of what the test was for. I wanted to be in badly, because, like many others here, I was bored in "regular" school and thought it would be more fun. I passed, and thus began my interest in the topic.

To address the question, my scores range from 136 to 182 (an outlier from testcafe), including internet tests, of which I am well aware of the accuracy. On the 12 minute timed test at highiqsociety.org I scored 152.

As an extreme perfectionist, I suffer from an odd mixture of underachievement from boredom, over-achievement from perfectionism, and apathy from my views concerning the future of life. I seem to procrastinate until the last day, and start working on projects around midnight on the day they're due. I usually tend to get 100s on them, to the aggravation of many of my peers. I had exams last week, didn't study at all, and felt that I did fine. I am also VERY familiar with the "sock-seam" thing mentioned previously. The superiority that I feel to some of my classmates sometimes approaches haughty disgust, and contributes to my overt vanity. I am honest though, and aware of my emotional ineptness.

Zoob, I remember reading that people with Asperger's Syndrome tend to excell Verbally and Mathematically (Bobby Fischer), but your post above mentioned a verbal weakness and emotional maladroitness suggested Asperger's. I may be wrong.

Sorry for the long post everyone, I know the feeling. It's just that I saw this thread and sort of freaked out.

 

[Leonardo Sidis]

Hey Zoob, you were born on the same day as William James Sidis, April 1.
I've noticed that a surprisingly large percentage of the leading minds of today and yesterday were born in April: Garry Kasparov, Leonardo DaVinci, William Sidis, Marilyn vos Savant, Leonhard Euler (born the same day as Leonardo DaVinci, April 15th), and Bobby Fischer to name a few.

Maybe there is actually an explanation for this. Could it be that highly intelligent people (in this case the parents of those mentioned above) are more inclined to engage in amorous activities around July, resulting in the birth of their children in April?

 

[honestrosewater]

Welcome to PF, Leonardo Sidis![/color][/size]

IQ has been discussed a lot here. I suggest you search the General Discussion and Social Science forums if you're interested or no one answers you in this thread. (Hm, the search is being funky; here's some from google http://www.google.com/search?as_q=s...as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images.)

Have you considered leaving school? I'm not advising that you do; I'm just asking.

 

[honestrosewater]

Hey Zoob, you were born on the same day as William James Sidis, April 1.
I've noticed that a surprisingly large percentage of the leading minds of today and yesterday were born in April: Garry Kasparov, Leonardo DaVinci, William Sidis, Marilyn vos Savant, Leonhard Euler (born the same day as Leonardo DaVinci, April 15th), and Bobby Fischer to name a few.
Maybe there is actually an explanation for this. Could it be that highly intelligent people (in this case the parents of those mentioned above) are more inclined to engage in amorous activities around July, resulting in the birth of their children in April?

Ahem, Shakespeare doesn't deserve a mention?

And since you've noticed that some percentage of the leading minds were born in April, you have a list of all the leading minds, right? How many are there?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Zoob, I remember reading that people with Asperger's Syndrome tend to excell Verbally and Mathematically (Bobby Fischer), but your post above mentioned a verbal weakness and emotional maladroitness suggested Asperger's.

The verbal weakness in Asperger's is occult at first and masquerades as it's opposite. Asperger's kids usually learn to read earlier than other kids their own age, and seem to delight in it, especially reading out loud to themselves. This makes them seem quite bright and advanced. However, it turns out they have very poor comprehension of the material they read and are usually not able to paraphrase or analyse it satisfactorily at all. In fact, what they are doing is enjoying the mere sound of words and speech. Asperger's kids are often just fascinated by the phenomena of pronounciation, enunciation and the correspondence of letters to sound, and they can perseverate at it for hours. The meaning of what they're reading is of little importance to them, and yet a lot of them end up standing out for their distinct, clear, educated sounding pronounciation.

Alot of Asperger's boys are attracted to math and science, but here again, the comprehension level isn't necessarily very high. These subjects lend themselves to what they do best, which is rote memorization. In general the dynamic is simply intense interest in a narrow range. One Asperger's kid might be "Mr. Dinosaur" knowing all the names and types, and dates, etc. Another might be a walking encyclopedia of aviation facts. Among school subjects they are most likely to be attracted to math and science and do fairly well at it because the enjoyment of memorization by rote can be quite handy in those things. The same might apply to a history course if it is taught with an emphasis on memorizing dates, but if it emphasizes analysis, they won't do well easily.

"Emotional maladroitness" isn't quite right. "Social maladroitness" is more to the point. This doesn't usually become noticable until everyone starts going through puberty and there's a general jump to a different attitude. Asperger's kids remain as naive as ever, and get left behind in a kind of immaturity that the rest are eager to abandon. This is when they start to get picked on, called "weird" and "geek" and so forth. Asperger's girls fair much better than boys because when a girl seems naive they tend to get "adopted" by some other girl eager to be a big sister or mother figure. Boys aren't so nice to the naive.