What is the Electron Cloud and Why is it So Mysterious?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter _Mayday_
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Cloud Electron Mystery
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the "electron cloud" in atomic physics, specifically addressing what constitutes this region and the nature of the space between electrons. Participants explore various interpretations and implications of the term, as well as the models used to describe atomic structure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the definition of the "electron cloud," suggesting it may not be fully understood and asking if it can be described solely as containing electrons.
  • Another participant proposes that the "electron cloud" could be interpreted as a photon leaving the atom, referring to characteristic X-rays.
  • Some participants discuss the nature of the space within the electron cloud, with one asserting that it is essentially a vacuum with virtual particles mediating forces between electrons and protons.
  • A participant highlights the confusion surrounding the term "electron cloud," contrasting classical and quantum models of the atom, noting that electrons may not be visualized as discrete particles but rather as wave-like entities with probabilistic locations.
  • There is a mention of the uncertainty principle, which states that the exact position of an electron cannot be determined, contributing to the complexity of understanding the electron cloud.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and implications of the electron cloud, with no consensus reached on its definition or the models used to describe it. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific characteristics of the electron cloud and its components.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference different models of atomic structure, including classical and quantum perspectives, which may lead to varying interpretations of the electron cloud. The discussion reflects a lack of clarity on the definitions and implications of these models.

_Mayday_
Messages
808
Reaction score
0
Simple question here, I know where the protons, neutrons etc. are, but what I can't seem to find anywhere is what I have labeled "X" in my poorly drawn diagram. Everywhere I look it calls it an "electron cloud" is that all it can be described as because we don't actually know exactly what is in there other electrons?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/329/atomya0.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
CrawfordK said:
Simple question here, I know where the protons, neutrons etc. are, but what I can't seem to find anywhere is what I have labeled "X" in my poorly drawn diagram. Everywhere I look it calls it an "electron cloud" is that all it can be described as because we don't actually know exactly what is in there other electrons?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/329/atomya0.png


I don't know either, and I don't know why you call this "High Energy, Nuclear, Particle Physics" ;P

Maybe you have labeled "X" as a photon leaving the atom, i.e a deexcitation. These photons are called characteristic X-rays.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I posted it here after reading the forum description.

"Physics of nuclei & elementary particles"

I'm talking about the "space" or "electron cloud" that is in between the electrons.
 
CrawfordK said:
I posted it here after reading the forum description.

"Physics of nuclei & elementary particles"

I'm talking about the "space" or "electron cloud" that is in between the electrons.

But howabout the forum for atomic physics?.. elementary particles are EVERYTHING, so should we talk about everything here? No only things that are dealing with theories and phenomenon about Nuclear and Particle physic. i.e SUBatomic physics. Maybe you are not a physics-student? Now you know this.

So what is your question? First I thought you was asking what you meant by 'X', and I said that I can't know what you draw in your diagrams :P

Or are you asking why the atom has a "electronic cloud" ?

"Everywhere I look it calls it an "electron cloud" is that all it can be described as because we don't actually know exactly what is in there other electrons?" - strange sentence...
 
What is in the electron cloud, minus the electrons.
 
CrawfordK said:
What is in the electron cloud, minus the electrons.

nothing.

(i.e vacuum and some virtual force mediating particles between the electrons and protons)
 
Thanks.
 
malawi_glenn said:
nothing.

(i.e vacuum and some virtual force mediating particles between the electrons and protons)
By your understanding = no heat in there then.
 
basePARTICLE said:
By your understanding = no heat in there then.

What does "heat" have anything to do with what is being asked in this thread?

Zz.
 
  • #10
I think the OP was just confused about the term "electron cloud". You mixed up two ways of looking at an atom. In one way, you can see it as a nucleus with electrons encircling it, like Bohr drew. But that doesn't explain everything, so stuff got a lot more confusing and now we have an atom model where there are no electrons in the form you're used to. No particles. On quantum level, they just can't be seen in the way we see them. It is more wave-like, and there's a certain probability for it being on a specific spot (the uncertainty principle says you can never be sure where exactly). The "electron cloud" you talk of, is basically the area that holds a 90% chance of having the electron there.
 
  • #11
mr. vodka said:
I think the OP was just confused about the term "electron cloud". You mixed up two ways of looking at an atom. In one way, you can see it as a nucleus with electrons encircling it, like Bohr drew. But that doesn't explain everything, so stuff got a lot more confusing and now we have an atom model where there are no electrons in the form you're used to. No particles. On quantum level, they just can't be seen in the way we see them. It is more wave-like, and there's a certain probability for it being on a specific spot (the uncertainty principle says you can never be sure where exactly). The "electron cloud" you talk of, is basically the area that holds a 90% chance of having the electron there.

Thank you very much.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K