What is the Mass of Ionized Hydrogen in Stars and How Does it Affect Pressure?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass of ionized hydrogen in stars and its implications for pressure calculations, particularly in the context of stellar physics. Participants explore the relationship between particle mass, density, and pressure within stars, specifically focusing on the Sun.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the mass of ionized hydrogen is stated as 0.5 AMU instead of the expected 1.0078 AMU minus the mass of an electron.
  • Another participant suggests that the mass of ionized hydrogen is effectively that of a proton, with considerations for isotopes like deuterium and tritium.
  • It is noted that the average mass of a particle in the Sun's context is 0.5 AMU, assuming a hydrogen-dominated composition, which changes to 0.61 AMU when accounting for helium and heavier elements.
  • A participant elaborates that the average mass is derived from averaging the masses of free electrons and hydrogen nuclei, indicating that the mass of electrons is negligible compared to hydrogen nuclei.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to consider the types of particles exerting pressure in the star, mentioning the roles of ion gas, free electron gas, and photon gas, with the latter being less significant.
  • There is a suggestion that in some stars, the quantum density may lead to degenerate electrons, requiring the use of Fermi gas pressure for electron contributions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the mass of ionized hydrogen and its implications for pressure calculations, indicating that multiple views remain without a clear consensus on the specifics.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the composition of stars and the treatment of particle masses in pressure calculations are not fully resolved, particularly concerning the contributions of different particle types and the conditions under which they operate.

Trebor0808
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Could anyone please explain why in the book The Physics of Stars it states that the mass of ionized Hydrogen is 0.5AMU, I cannot figure out why it isn't 1.0078AMU minus the mass of an electron?
 
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Good question, the mass of ionised hydrogen is just that of a proton (with corrections to account for deuterium and tritium). Can you provide the context?
 
It's with regards to the pressure inside the sun, P=((density)/(avg mass of a partice))*kT where the avg mass of a particle in this case is 0.5 AMU. Assuming that the sun is made up entirely of Hydrogen in this case (comes out to be 0.61AMU when taking into account helium and other heavier elements).
 
Trebor0808 said:
It's with regards to the pressure inside the sun, P=((density)/(avg mass of a partice))*kT where the avg mass of a particle in this case is 0.5 AMU. Assuming that the sun is made up entirely of Hydrogen in this case (comes out to be 0.61AMU when taking into account helium and other heavier elements).
In that case you are averaging over the free electrons and the hydrogen nuclei, I would guess. The mass is negligible in comparison to the hydrogen nuclei, so for the same number of electrons and nuclei, the average is half that of the hydrogen nuclei.
 
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Oh okay that does make more sense now, thank you for your help.
 
In calculating the pressure, you need to consider what particles are exerting the pressure. When dilute enough, the plasma inside the star is a mixture of ion gas, free electron gas, and photon gas. But the photon pressure is usually orders smaller. So you only need to consider electron and ion gases.

*In fact, I think in some of the stars the quantum density is such that electrons are already degenerate. This means you have to use Fermi gas pressure for the contribution from electrons.
 
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