What is the nature of the medium that carries electromagnetic waves?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter bobsmith76
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Light
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the medium that carries electromagnetic waves, particularly focusing on what oscillates during the propagation of light and how energy is transported. The scope includes conceptual understanding and quantum physics implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that energy moves while matter does not, suggesting that electric and magnetic fields oscillate in place, akin to a crowd doing the wave.
  • Others argue that the photon, which exhibits both particle-like and wave-like properties, is what moves, leading to confusion about its true nature.
  • A participant notes that the photon is a massless particle and emphasizes that terms like "particle" are merely approximations or analogies for subatomic phenomena.
  • From an electromagnetic wave perspective, it is suggested that the changes in the strength of electric and magnetic fields constitute the wave, rather than any physical motion of particles.
  • Another viewpoint highlights that electromagnetic waves can carry energy through a vacuum without requiring a material medium, contrasting this with sound waves that need a medium like air or water.
  • It is mentioned that while light does not require a material medium, it can interact with materials, as illustrated by the photoelectric effect, where light can transfer energy to electrons in a medium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of photons and the medium for electromagnetic waves. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing interpretations of how energy and fields interact.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of terms like "particle" and "wave," as well as the implications of quantum mechanics on the understanding of photons and electromagnetic waves. The complexity of light traveling through different media is also noted but not fully explored.

bobsmith76
Messages
336
Reaction score
0
Here's a question from my textbook. Since there are no calculations I put this in this forum rather than the hmwk forum.

When light (or other electromagnetic radiation) travels across a given region, what is it that oscillates? What is it that is transported?

Here is the answer provided:

Energy moves. No matter moves. You could say that electric and magnetic fields move, but it is nicer to say that the fields stay at that point and oscillate. The fields vary in time, like sports fans in the grandstand when the crowd does the wave. The fields constitute the medium for the wave, and energy moves.

I thought it was the photon that moves. Maybe I'm thinking of the photon as a particle when it's not really a particle but only has particle like properties.
 
Science news on Phys.org
Okay. This involves a little quantum physics. I might not be qualified to answer this question, as I only have a basic understanding of it, but here goes.

The photon isn't "really" a particle or a wave. Or it's both. In some experiments, it shows particle-like properties, and in others, it appears to show wave-like ones. (In fact, from observations, in some experiments it acts exactly like a particle and in others, exactly like a wave.) I'd imagine that in this experiment, it would exhibit wave-like properties as opposed to particle-like ones.

This sound confusing? Welcome to Quantum Mechanics.
 
bobsmith76 said:
I thought it was the photon that moves. Maybe I'm thinking of the photon as a particle when it's not really a particle but only has particle like properties.

It's a particle, it's just a massless particle.

Whovian's answer is a good description.

Thing to remember is that all words (such as "particle") are approximations and analogies. No amount of words can properly describe anything subatomic. What describes them is the formulae. Words are simply metaphors to help us visualize things. "The photon is like a particle". Like any analogy, it can be carried too far.
 
From the "electromagnetic wave" point of view (as opposed to the "photon" point of view) the wave is changes (increases and decreases) in the strength of the electric and magnetic fields (or the "electromagnetic" field), not actual motion of anything.
 
All the above sounds good...
electromagnetic waves carry energy in a vacuum...in 'nothing'...there is no background material, no mass,no atoms, no particles, required, just space and time; with sound waves in contrast, energy is also transferred but requires a medium, like air or water or metal...some mass, some particles, to carry the energy.

When light travels in a medium, like glass, things get more complicated...that's another discussion.

Also, it should be noted that while not requiring a material medium, light CAN cause a medium to gain energy...the photoelectric effect is such a situation in which incident light can set orbital electrons into different energy levels...
 

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
5K
  • · Replies 71 ·
3
Replies
71
Views
11K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
11K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K