What is the Principle of General Covariance in Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the principle of General Covariance in the context of General Relativity (GR). Participants explore its implications for the laws of physics across different reference frames, addressing confusion regarding the application of this principle in inertial versus accelerated frames.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that General Covariance implies the laws of physics take the same form in all reference frames, but this does not guarantee identical experimental results across different situations.
  • One participant highlights that results will differ between inertial and accelerated frames, suggesting that local inertial frames can yield consistent results in a gravitational field.
  • Another participant distinguishes between General Covariance and the equivalence principle, noting that the latter states that locally, one cannot distinguish between uniform acceleration and being in a gravitational field.
  • A participant introduces the concept of the geodesic equation, explaining that it remains valid across different coordinate systems and transforms accordingly, which is a characteristic of being "generally covariant."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and differing interpretations of General Covariance, indicating that multiple competing views remain regarding its implications and relationship to the equivalence principle.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully resolve the distinctions between General Covariance and the equivalence principle, nor do they clarify the implications of these concepts in specific scenarios.

shubham agn
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Hello!

I am reading GR and got confused about the principle of General Covariance. The principle of General Covariance says that the laws of physics take the same form in all reference frames. Since the laws are same in all reference frames, any experiment performed should give identical results in all reference frames. But this is not true since if I release a ball in an inertial frame it remains stationary but if released in an accelerated frame it speeds up.

Am i not understanding the meaning of General Covariance?
 
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shubham agn said:
Hello!

I am reading GR and got confused about the principle of General Covariance. The principle of General Covariance says that the laws of physics take the same form in all reference frames. Since the laws are same in all reference frames, any experiment performed should give identical results in all reference frames. But this is not true since if I release a ball in an inertial frame it remains stationary but if released in an accelerated frame it speeds up.

Am i not understanding the meaning of General Covariance?
Yes, general covariance says that the laws of physics should take the same form in all reference frames. But it doesn't say that they should give the same results when applied to different situations!
 
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Here's what wikipedia has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_covariance

Results will always vary between inertial and accelerated frames.

However, if you are falling in a gravitational field then locally you have an inertial frame and the experiment should give the same results.
 
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I forgot to mention. You're mixing two different things. One is general covariance which I explained.
The other thing is the equivalence principle which says that the laws of physics should be that of SR in small patches of spacetime. It also means that locally, you can't distinguish between a uniformly accelerated motion and being in a gravitational field.
 
shubham agn said:
Hello!

I am reading GR and got confused about the principle of General Covariance. The principle of General Covariance says that the laws of physics take the same form in all reference frames. Since the laws are same in all reference frames, any experiment performed should give identical results in all reference frames. But this is not true since if I release a ball in an inertial frame it remains stationary but if released in an accelerated frame it speeds up.

Am i not understanding the meaning of General Covariance?

Say you have an equation for your inertial frame that tells you how the ball is going to move. Call it the geodesic equation. When you change coordinate system [frame of reference] you still have this geodesic equation, but it's a tensor equation, and the elements of the equation transform as the coordinate system transforms.The geodesic equation, with it's transformed elements, now tell you that ball is accelerating.

So we write the geodesic equation in a sufficiently ambiguous way, that it can be applied to any coordinate system, and identify it as being "generally covariant".
 
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Thanks Shyan, jedishrfu and stewards!
 

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