What is the relationship between escape velocity and orbital velocity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between escape velocity and orbital velocity, exploring concepts of energy, potential energy, and the nature of orbits beyond elliptical paths. Participants examine the dynamics of an object moving towards a planet and the conditions under which it may enter different types of orbits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that as an object moves from infinity towards a planet, it initially has kinetic energy, which transforms into potential energy as it approaches, leading to a reduction in kinetic energy.
  • Another participant questions the initial claim, suggesting that the object would actually gain kinetic energy due to gravitational attraction as it approaches the planet.
  • A participant elaborates on the energy dynamics, stating that in a system where potential energy is zero at infinity, the potential energy becomes negative as the object approaches the planet, resulting in an increase in kinetic energy.
  • It is noted that an object with zero total energy follows a parabolic path, while positive total energy leads to a hyperbolic path, and negative total energy results in elliptical or circular orbits.
  • One participant expresses confusion over the signs in their earlier analysis regarding potential and kinetic energy, acknowledging the correction and thanking another participant for their input.
  • A later post seeks clarification on the relationship between total energy and escape velocity, suggesting that the escape velocity corresponds to the condition where kinetic energy equals the negative potential energy at a specific radial distance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some disagreement regarding the nature of energy changes as an object approaches a planet. While some assert that kinetic energy increases, others initially suggest it decreases. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of total energy on the type of orbit.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the concept of potential energy being zero at infinity and the implications of total energy on orbital paths, but there are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding energy transformations and their effects on orbital dynamics.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying celestial mechanics, gravitational dynamics, and the principles of orbital motion in physics.

gokul.er137
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I am trying to understand the existence of orbits apart from the elliptical one. I have used the following line of thought.

Consider an object moving from infinity towards a planet. The object has kinetic energy alone at infinity. But it develops a potential energy as it comes closer to the planet. Thereby, its kinetic energy reduces. As it comes sufficiently closer to the planet, its kinetic energy reduces. At the radial distance wherein its speed is equal to the orbital speed of the planet, it starts to move around and orbit the planet. But if its speed throughout somehow manages to be larger than the orbital speed then it continues to move away from the planet, suffering only a light deflection.

Thus, I gather that it is imperative that the speed of the object at all points be larger than the orbital velocity. But then, the gravitational force only always tends to infinity. In other words, the gravitational force always affects the object no matter how far away it keeps on going. My analysis is that, if the change in velocity as the object moves closer and farther away from the planet is negligible, then the object movies in a hyperbola. But if the change is not negligible and not larger enough reduce the speed to the orbital speed, then I guess it moves in a parabola.

I am developing on the mathematics to follow this. But I would like to know if my analysis is right.

Thanks in advance.
 
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As your object approaches a planet, wouldn't it get MORE kinetic energy from being pulled towards it?
 
gokul.er137 said:
I am trying to understand the existence of orbits apart from the elliptical one. I have used the following line of thought.

Consider an object moving from infinity towards a planet. The object has kinetic energy alone at infinity. But it develops a potential energy as it comes closer to the planet. Thereby, its kinetic energy reduces. As it comes sufficiently closer to the planet, its kinetic energy reduces. At the radial distance wherein its speed is equal to the orbital speed of the planet, it starts to move around and orbit the planet. But if its speed throughout somehow manages to be larger than the orbital speed then it continues to move away from the planet, suffering only a light deflection.

In a system where you assign zero potential energy at infinite distance, as you approach the planet ,he potential energy becomes negative and becomes more negative as the closer you get to the planet. Thus the potential energy goes down and the kinetic energy goes up.

An object with exactly zero total energy (kinetic+potential) follows a parabolic path.
An object with positive total energy follows a hyperbolic path.
An object with negative total energy follows either a elliptic or circular orbit.)

Since an object falling from infinity cannot have less than zero total energy, it could only enter into a elliptic orbit if it sheds some of its kinetic energy in some manner.
 
Janus said:
In a system where you assign zero potential energy at infinite distance, as you approach the planet ,he potential energy becomes negative and becomes more negative as the closer you get to the planet. Thus the potential energy goes down and the kinetic energy goes up.

Thanks. I messed up the signs. As you say, If the potential is 0 at infinity as it moves closer and closer to the planet, the potential energy should become more negative. I should however have understood intuitively that kinetic energy increases as an object comes closer and closer to the planet. Thanks to Drakkith too. I will post doubts as they plague me.
 
Janus said:
An object with exactly zero total energy (kinetic+potential) follows a parabolic path.
An object with positive total energy follows a hyperbolic path.
An object with negative total energy follows either a elliptic or circular orbit.)

Since an object falling from infinity cannot have less than zero total energy, it could only enter into a elliptic orbit if it sheds some of its kinetic energy in some manner.

I gather that when you say 0 total energy the Kinetic energy exactly accounts for the potential energy at that point. Which implies that the velocity is sqrt(2*G*M/r), the escape velocity for that point. Is there any proof for this?
 

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