What is the Relationship Between Gas Volume and Its Properties?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gas volume and its properties, including definitions of gas volume, the implications of the ideal gas model, and the deviations observed in real gases compared to ideal gases. The scope includes conceptual clarifications and theoretical considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to define the volume of gas, suggesting it might be the sum of the volume of each atom, but expresses confusion about this definition given that gas volume appears variable.
  • Another participant argues that the volume of atoms is constant and thus cannot define gas volume, stating that temperature relates to the average energy of gas molecules rather than collisions.
  • Concerns are raised about the deviations between ideal and real gases, with one participant suggesting that atomic attraction plays a significant role in these deviations, while another discusses the implications of intrinsic volume on gas compressibility.
  • A participant questions whether the volume of gas could be defined as the space in which it is allowed to move, pondering if this would imply an infinite volume.
  • One response affirms that at equilibrium, a gas fills its available volume, implying that the volume is defined by the container it occupies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of gas volume and the relationship between gas properties and the ideal gas model. There is no consensus on how to define gas volume or the implications of atomic interactions on gas behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the relationship between atomic volume and gas behavior, as well as the complexities involved in the transition from ideal to real gas behavior. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of fundamental concepts without resolving these ambiguities.

f24u7
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Hi, I have a few question about gas and its volume

1. How to define the volume of gas (is it the sum of the volume of each atom)?

2. If ideal gas does not consider atom to occupy space, then how does it accounts for
the basic definition of temperature (the collision of atoms)

3. What is the deviations between ideal gas and real gas ( I really don't get this even
though I read the textbook several times, I will assume that the attraction between
atoms must play a big role in the deviations for I don't see the relations between the
deviations and finite volume)
 
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f24u7 said:
1. How to define the volume of gas (is it the sum of the volume of each atom)?

Voulme of atoms is constant, so this sum will be constant as well. Obviously it is not, so this definition sounds incorrect.

2. If ideal gas does not consider atom to occupy space, then how does it accounts for the basic definition of temperature (the collision of atoms)

I am not sure if I follow - temperature is not directly related to collisions. It is related to average energy of the gas atoms (molecules). Could be you have no idea to collide two atoms that don't have a size - you may try to imagine they interact like identical charges, repelling itself.

3. What is the deviations between ideal gas and real gas ( I really don't get this even though I read the textbook several times, I will assume that the attraction between
atoms must play a big role in the deviations for I don't see the relations between the
deviations and finite volume)

If atoms (molecules) don't have intrinsic volume, gas can be compressed into as small volume as you wish, you just have to use pressure high enough. However, if they have some intrinsic volume, at some point increasing the pressure will not change volume of the substance, its compressibility will abruptly change from close to 1 to much closer to zero. That's the end of ideality.
 
if my assumption for number 1 is incorrect then how do we define the volume of gas ( the space in which the gas is allow to move? then wouldn't it be infinity ?)
 
f24u7 said:
if my assumption for number 1 is incorrect then how do we define the volume of gas ( the space in which the gas is allow to move? then wouldn't it be infinity ?)

Yes; at equilibrium a gas fills its available volume.
 

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