Why are the constants a and b independent of temperature in gas properties?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the independence of the constants a and b in the context of gas properties, particularly in relation to temperature. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical relationships, and conceptual clarifications regarding the van der Waals equation of state and the behavior of real gases compared to ideal gases.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the constants a and b are described in their textbook as characteristic properties of a gas that do not depend on temperature, but expresses confusion regarding this claim.
  • Another participant clarifies that the constant b refers to the actual volume of gas molecules, which is distinct from the volume the gas occupies under specific conditions, suggesting that b is not temperature dependent in the context discussed.
  • A participant questions whether an increase in temperature would lead to a decrease in the constant a due to changes in intermolecular forces.
  • Another reply suggests that as temperature increases, intermolecular distances increase, which may affect the pressure but does not necessarily alter the constant a significantly.
  • One participant mentions that under certain conditions, such as when all electrons are in their ground state, the volume of molecules and the strength of intermolecular forces can be approximated as constant, although this is acknowledged as not entirely true.
  • A later post reiterates the initial confusion regarding the relationship between the ideal gas constant R and its dependence on pressure, volume, number of moles, and temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the temperature dependence of the constants a and b, with some arguing for their independence while others question this assertion based on temperature effects on intermolecular forces and volumes. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various concepts such as intermolecular forces, the van der Waals equation, and the ideal gas law, indicating a complex interplay of factors that may influence the properties of gases. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which the constants a and b are considered independent of temperature.

subhradeep mahata
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Homework Statement


My book says that the constants a and b are characteristic properties of a gas, and they do not depend on temperature. But i am having trouble understanding it.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


We know, a = ΔP*V2 / n2 , but volume is temperature dependent, so how can a be temperature independent? One explanation can be that as V increases then ΔP will decrease, so that the ratio remains constant, but i am not sure.
Similarly as I increase the temperature, volume will increase, hence b decreases, as the gas approaches ideality. Please help me out.
 
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Hello,

subhradeep mahata said:
but volume is temperature dependent
indeed it is. But that is a 'different volume'.

the ##b## in the van der Waals equation of state refers to the 'actual' volume of the molecules themselves. In other words: the equivalent volume of the molecules if they are considered as hard spheres. The volume the gas assumes under a given pressure and at a given temperature is much greater: most of that is simply empty space trough which the molecules move at considerable speeds. ##b## follows when you go to zero Kelvin and classically the molecules don't move any more.

##a## is a first correction on the pressure: in the ideal gas law there are no intermolecular forces and ##pV = nRT##. In a real gas there is a small, almost always attractive, force between the molecules that reduces the pressure.
 
Okay, i understood the case of b.
But i need some clarifications regarding a.
If temperature increases, won't the intermolecular force and hence 'a' decrease ?
 
Last edited:
The forces decrease because the intramolecular distances increase. The effect on the pressure in lowest order is best approximated with ##a\displaystyle \left ( n\over V \right )^2 \ .##

Google intramolecular forces, van der Waals force, Lennard Jones potential
 
As long as all electrons are in their ground state "volume" of the molecules and strength of intermolecular forces can be assumed constant (that's not entirely true, but it is quite a good approximation). In temperatures where the VdV equation is used electrons don't get excited.
 
subhradeep mahata said:

Homework Statement


My book says that the constants a and b are characteristic properties of a gas, and they do not depend on temperature. But i am having trouble understanding it.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


We know, a = ΔP*V2 / n2 , but volume is temperature dependent, so how can a be temperature independent? One explanation can be that as V increases then ΔP will decrease, so that the ratio remains constant, but i am not sure.
By your mathematical rationale, in the ideal gas equation PV=nRT, the ideal gas constant R should be a function of the pressure, the volume, the number of moles, and the temperature. Is that correct?
 

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