What is the Relationship Between Wavelength and Aperture Size in EM Waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between wavelength and aperture size in electromagnetic (EM) waves, particularly in the context of applications such as wire grid polarizers and Faraday cages. Participants explore how these concepts apply to different wavelengths, their implications for data storage in CDs, and the behavior of EM waves when interacting with various materials and structures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the spot size in optical devices is diffraction-limited, suggesting that smaller wavelengths allow for smaller spots, which is critical for data storage in CDs.
  • Others question why the spacing of a Faraday cage's bars should be shorter than the wavelength of the radiation, arguing that the wavelength is oriented along the normal to the cage surface.
  • One participant introduces the concept of wire grid polarizers, explaining that the separation distance between wires must be less than the wavelength for effective operation.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that the longitudinal dimension (wavelength) is affected by transverse objects, seeking clarification on the relationship between wavelength and mesh size in polarizers.
  • Some participants discuss the role of eddy currents in blocking waves and how this relates to the dimensions of the mesh in wire grid polarizers.
  • There is a suggestion that the amplitude of the wave may not be the determining factor in transmission, but rather the wavelength itself is crucial.
  • Participants explore the implications of using very small apertures for optical radiation and whether they would effectively block or allow transmission of photons.
  • One participant emphasizes the complexity of the mathematical treatment involved in understanding how spacing affects the transmission of fields through a Faraday cage.
  • Another participant mentions the trade-off between laser spot size and wavelength, noting that higher frequencies can carry more data due to smaller spot sizes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between wavelength and aperture size, with no consensus reached on the underlying principles governing this interaction. Some agree on the importance of wavelength in determining mesh size for polarizers, while others challenge this notion and seek further clarification.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in understanding arise from the complexity of the interactions between EM waves and materials, as well as the mathematical intricacies involved in diffraction and polarization effects. Participants highlight the need for careful consideration of definitions and assumptions in these discussions.

  • #31
gareth said:
so how does the mainstream theory explain this? What dimensions does an EM wave have in the transverse?
According to mainstream physics, the transverse extent of a photon is exactly zero.

gareth said:
Why is it [the effective area of a small antenna] proportional to the square [of the incident wavelength]?
Dimensional analysis? (Read the link provided.)

gareth said:
Please expand on the overlap/cancellation part, this seems to suggest that the attena cause a phase-shift of half a wavelength between the transmitted and "re-readiated" wave.
The oscillating transverse electric field, in an EM wave, applies an oscillating transverse acceleration to any free charges. Look up "simple harmonic motion": the position of the charges will lag the acceleration by 180 degrees, hence the phase shift.

schroder said:
½mv^2 = E = hf, mv = p = h/l
Those non-relativistic approximations are invalid for the speeds you wish to consider.

granpa said:
but where do the eddy currents get the energy to produce these waves? they must absorb it from the incoming wave, yet the incoming wave never actually touches the metal wire.
Of course the incoming wave touches the wire, in fact it permeates all space. And above the 'skin depth' of the wire, it supplies energy driving simple harmonic motion of charge (which is in turn damped by the production of a re-radiation which cancels out most of the field beyond the skin depth, effectively converting the energy into a reflected beam).
 
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  • #32
if you consider how electrons oscillating in an antenna produce a radio wave I would think that the EM wave is not actually produced directly at the antenna itself but rather it is produced in the space immediately surrounding it (by the expanding and collapsing electric and magnetic fields which are out of phase with the moving electrons). so I suppose that the reverse process of absorbing the EM wave doesn't actually require the wave to strike the antenna directly. I suppose its absorbed by the field that immediately surrounds the antenna that is produced by the oscilating electrons inside the antenna itself.

so perhaps the photon doesn't extend 1/2 wavelength to each side after all. (of course, being a wave, it will tend to spread out)
 
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  • #33
cesiumfrog said:
According to mainstream physics, the transverse extent of a photon is exactly zero.

But how does this fit in with the wave theory of light, there is limit (look up "diffraction limit" and "Airy disc") to the extent an EM wave can be localised on a spot.

These state that an EM wave is effected by apertures in the transverse, if the photon has zero dimensions in the tranverse, why it is affected?
 

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