What Is the Role of Inertia in Newton's First Law of Motion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the role of inertia in Newton's First Law of Motion, particularly in the context of a shovel carrying dirt that suddenly stops. Participants explore the conditions under which the net force on the dirt changes and how this relates to its motion after the shovel stops.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where a shovel carrying dirt stops suddenly, questioning when the net force on the dirt equals zero and how it falls off the shovel.
  • Another participant asserts that the net force is zero when the shovel is not accelerating, and that a net force must be applied to stop the shovel, which can cause the dirt to fall off if the force is too great.
  • Some participants suggest that once the shovel stops accelerating, the dirt continues moving due to inertia until it is acted upon by gravity, raising questions about the forces at play during the transition.
  • One participant introduces the concept of a large acceleration at the release point, indicating that the dirt can break loose due to the force exceeding the adhesion between the shovel and the dirt.
  • Another participant elaborates on the scenario of accelerating the shovel from rest and then suddenly pulling back, explaining that the dirt cannot remain attached due to the insufficient frictional force when the shovel decelerates rapidly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which the net force on the dirt is zero and how inertia affects its motion after the shovel stops. There is no consensus on the precise mechanics involved in the transition of the dirt's motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss various assumptions about forces, friction, and the nature of inertia without resolving the complexities involved in these interactions.

Girix
Let's say a shovel carrying a pile of dirt is moving right and then make a sudden stop. The dirt then falls off the shovel moving in the same direction as the shovel was moving. This is an example of Newton's first law of motion. For this to happen, the net force must equal 0 on the object, so when does the net force on the object (dirt) equal zero? Is the net force of the dirt pile zero when it is on the shovel? If so, then how would it fall off the shovel if the shovel makes a sudden stop? The net force would equal zero because the applied force is canceled out by the force of friction on the shovel. Or is the net force unequal to zero when it is flung off the shovel, which means the applied force overcomes the frictional force?
 
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The net force is zero when the shovel (and dirt along with it) isn't accelerating. As soon as you go to stop the shovel, you have to apply a net force, which accelerates it in the opposite direction as it is moving, thus slowing it down. If the net force, which is transferred through the shovel to the dirt, is too great, then the dirt falls off of the shovel (either by sliding off or by the pile "toppling" over).
 
Drakkith said:
The net force is zero when the shovel (and dirt along with it) isn't accelerating. As soon as you go to stop the shovel, you have to apply a net force, which accelerates it in the opposite direction as it is moving, thus slowing it down. If the net force, which is transferred through the shovel to the dirt, is too great, then the dirt falls off of the shovel (either by sliding off or by the pile "toppling" over).

So, the net force being applied to the shovel (and the dirt) turns zero once the shovel stops accelerating, therefore the dirt has a net force of zero, which means the inertia causes it to continue moving in a constant velocity to the right until it falls down due to gravity, correct?
 
Girix said:
So, the net force being applied to the shovel (and the dirt) turns zero once the shovel stops accelerating, therefore the dirt has a net force of zero, which means the inertia causes it to continue moving in a constant velocity to the right until it falls down due to gravity, correct?
If you've ever shoveled dirt, you should know that's not how it works.

For sticky earth, you give the shovel a large acceleration. A backwards jerk at the release point. This exploits Newton's second law, F=ma. A large acceleration requires a large force. More force than the adhesion between Earth and shovel can sustain. The dirt breaks loose.

Having broken loose, there is little force left acting on the dirt. It continues in a free fall trajectory toward the pile where you've aimed it. Except for gravity, that's pretty much Newton's first law in action.
 
Girix said:
So, the net force being applied to the shovel (and the dirt) turns zero once the shovel stops accelerating, therefore the dirt has a net force of zero, which means the inertia causes it to continue moving in a constant velocity to the right until it falls down due to gravity, correct?

Let's say that, starting from rest, you slowly accelerate the shovel and dirt up to some velocity and then cease applying any net force. The shovel and dirt both continue their movement with no change in velocity. Then, you suddenly pull backwards (or sideways) hard, such that you quickly decelerate the shovel. The dirt, being held onto the shovel only by friction and together with relatively weak forces, cannot stay together under the net force the shovel is trying to apply to it (this force being transferred from your hands through the shovel to the dirt). So it falls apart and slides off of the shovel, as Newton's laws tell us it should.
 
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