What is the significance of Bessel function quotients?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of Bessel function quotients, specifically the ratios Kn'(x)/Kn(x) and In'(x)/In(x) as x approaches zero. Participants explore the mathematical behavior of these quotients, particularly in the context of limits that lead to indeterminate forms such as "infinity/infinity" and "0/0". The conversation includes attempts to analyze these limits and suggestions for techniques to handle them.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the behavior of In'(x)/In(x) for n>0 and n=0, indicating that as x approaches 0, the quotient tends to infinity with the sign of x for n>0, and tends to 0 for n=0.
  • Another participant presents a similar analysis for Kn'(x)/Kn(x), noting that for n>0, the quotient tends to infinity with the sign of (-x), while for n=0, it also tends to infinity with the sign of (-x).
  • There is a request for clarification on the initial forms of K[x,n] and I[x,n], which leads to a discussion about the series expansion of Bessel functions and the assumption of prior knowledge of their properties.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the notation O(x), with one clarifying that it refers to the order of magnitude in asymptotic analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the results or the methods to analyze the limits. There are multiple competing views regarding the understanding and application of Bessel functions and their properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific cases and asymptotic behaviors, but lacks a resolution on the overall significance of the findings or the methods proposed. Some assumptions about the properties of Bessel functions are not explicitly stated, which may affect the analysis.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those studying Bessel functions, particularly in applied mathematics or physics, as well as individuals interested in asymptotic analysis and mathematical reasoning related to limits.

rj_brown
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Hey guys!

I'm having to complete a piece of work for which I have to consider Bessel function quotients. By that I mean:

Kn'(x)/Kn(x) and In'(x)/In(x)

By Kn(x) I mean a modified Bessel function of the second kind of order n and by Kn'(x) I mean the derivative of Kn(x) with respect to the argument x.

Simurlaly, In(x) is a modified Bessel function of the first kind of order n and In'(x) is its derivative.

Basically what I need to find is Kn'(x)/Kn(x) and In'(x)/In(x) for x tending to zero, this obviously gives rise to a lot of "infinity/infinity" and "0/0" situations, so I need to perform some analysis on these.

My supervisor has suggested using a squeezing technique, which I think would work but would require upper and lower bounds of the quotients.

I know it's a bit of an involved question, but does anyone have any advice (I'm killing myself with this one!).

Thanks guys!
 
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Case n>0 :
I[n,x] = ((x/2)^n)(1+O(x))
I'[n,x] = (n/2)((x/2)^(n-1))(1+O(x))
I'/I = (n/(2x))(1+O(x))
x -> 0 then I'/I tends to infinity with sign of x
Case n=0 :
I[0,x] = 1+(x/2)²+O(x^4)
I'[0,x] = (x/2)+O(x^3)
I'/I = (x/2)+O(x^3)
x -> 0 then I'/I tends to 0

Case n>0 :
K[n,x) = (1/2)((n-1)!)((2/x)^n)(1+O(x))
k'[n,x] = (1/2)((n-1)!)((2/x)^n)(-1/x)(1+O(x))
K'/K = (-n/x)(1+O(x))
x -> 0 tnen K'/K tends to infinity with sign of (-x)
Case n=0 :
K[0,x] = ln(2/x) -g +O(x²ln(x))
g = Euler's constant
K'[0,x] = -1/x +O(x ln(x))
K'/K = (-1/x +O(x ln(x)))/(ln(x)+O(1))/
K'/K = -1/(x ln(x)) +O(x ln(x))
x -> 0 then K'/K tends to infinity with sign of (-x)

In all the above, ln(x) means ln(abs(x))
 
JJacquelin said:
Case n>0 :
I[n,x] = ((x/2)^n)(1+O(x))
I'[n,x] = (n/2)((x/2)^(n-1))(1+O(x))
I'/I = (n/(2x))(1+O(x))
x -> 0 then I'/I tends to infinity with sign of x
Case n=0 :
I[0,x] = 1+(x/2)²+O(x^4)
I'[0,x] = (x/2)+O(x^3)
I'/I = (x/2)+O(x^3)
x -> 0 then I'/I tends to 0

Case n>0 :
K[n,x) = (1/2)((n-1)!)((2/x)^n)(1+O(x))
k'[n,x] = (1/2)((n-1)!)((2/x)^n)(-1/x)(1+O(x))
K'/K = (-n/x)(1+O(x))
x -> 0 tnen K'/K tends to infinity with sign of (-x)
Case n=0 :
K[0,x] = ln(2/x) -g +O(x²ln(x))
g = Euler's constant
K'[0,x] = -1/x +O(x ln(x))
K'/K = (-1/x +O(x ln(x)))/(ln(x)+O(1))/
K'/K = -1/(x ln(x)) +O(x ln(x))
x -> 0 then K'/K tends to infinity with sign of (-x)

In all the above, ln(x) means ln(abs(x))

Hey thanks for that I really appreciate it! Could you just explain your initial form of K[x,n] and I[x,n] as its not something I'm familiar with. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
rj_brown said:
Hey thanks for that I really appreciate it! Could you just explain your initial form of K[x,n] and I[x,n] as its not something I'm familiar with. Thanks.

What I wrote is the first terms of the series expansion of the Bessel functions.
In order to solve a problem related to Bessel functions, of course, some properties of these functions are supposed to be known.
If you don't known these formulas, you have to use another method related to what you are supposed to know about the basic properties of those functions. This wasn't stated in your first post.
 
JJacquelin said:
What I wrote is the first terms of the series expansion of the Bessel functions.
In order to solve a problem related to Bessel functions, of course, some properties of these functions are supposed to be known.
If you don't known these formulas, you have to use another method related to what you are supposed to know about the basic properties of those functions. This wasn't stated in your first post.

Sorry I'm an applied mathematician not a Bessel expert. My main sticking point is just what O(x) means, the only place I've seen this before is in discussing orders of magnitude.
 
rj_brown said:
Sorry I'm an applied mathematician not a Bessel expert. My main sticking point is just what O(x) means, the only place I've seen this before is in discussing orders of magnitude.

Hello!
O(x) is the Landau's symbol. Yes, it is a matter of order of magnituide. Roughly, f(x)=1+O(x) means that f(x) tends to 1 and O(x) tends to 0 while x tends to 0.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LandauSymbols.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BesselFunctionoftheFirstKind.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BesselFunctionoftheSecondKind.html
 

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