What Is the Solution to the Recurrence Relation T(m^2)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the recurrence relation defined by T(n+1) = T(n) + ⌊√(n+1)⌋ with the initial condition T(1) = 1, specifically seeking to determine T(m^2) for m ≥ 1. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploratory approaches to recurrence relations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents the recurrence relation and attempts to express T(m^2) in terms of previous terms.
  • Post 2 suggests substituting n = m^2 - 1 into the recurrence relation to simplify the problem.
  • Post 3 reformulates T(m^2) using a recursion tree method, leading to a summation involving square roots.
  • Post 4 identifies a pattern in the floor function of square roots and proposes a cubic equation for T(m^2) based on observed values.
  • Post 5 seeks clarification on solving the equation derived in Post 3.
  • Post 6 expresses doubt about solving the equation due to the complexity introduced by the floor function, noting the non-linear nature of the recurrence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of solving the recurrence relation, with some proposing methods while others question the complexity and solvability of the derived equations. No consensus is reached on a definitive solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the challenges posed by the floor function and the non-linear nature of the recurrence relation, which complicates direct solutions. The discussion includes various approaches but does not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved.

22990atinesh
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Homework Statement


If
##T(n+1)=T(n)+ \lfloor \sqrt{n+1} \rfloor , n \geq 1##
##T(1)=1##
then
##T(m^2) = ? , m \geq 1##

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


##T(n)=T(n+1) - \lfloor \sqrt{n+1} \rfloor , n \geq 1##
##T(m^2)=T(m^2+1) - \lfloor \sqrt{m^2+1} \rfloor##
...
##T(m^2)= \sqrt{m^2+m} - ... - \sqrt{m^2+3} - \sqrt{m^2+2} - \sqrt{m^2+1}##
 
Last edited:
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It looks like you're trying to create a generator function T(n+1) where n+1 is m^2 so rather than juggle the formula as you did solving for m^2

you could say n+1 = m^2 and hence n=m^2 - 1 and sub that in for each n
 
Your saying it this way
##T(n+1) = T(n) + \lfloor \sqrt{n+1} \rfloor##
##m^2 = n + 1##
##T(m^2) = T(m^2 - 1) + \lfloor \sqrt{m^2} \rfloor##
on solving it through recursion tree method I'm coming up with
##T(m^2) = m + \sqrt{m^2-1} + \sqrt{m^2-2} + \sqrt{m^2-3} + ... + \sqrt{m^2-(m^2-3)} + 1##
Now how can we solve this equation
 
22990atinesh said:
Now how can we solve this equation
Note that the floor of the square root is being used:

T(n+1) = T(n) + ⌊ sqrt(n+1) ⌋
T(1) = 1.

I'm not sure how you convert this into a recursion tree, but note the pattern for fs(i) = ⌊ sqrt(i) ⌋ for i = 1 to 25:

Code:
i     :  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
fs(i) :  1  1  1  2  2  2  2  2  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  4  5

There are three 1's, five 2's, seven 3's, nine 4's.

Noting this pattern and converting into a sum for T(m^2) results in:

T(m^2) = m + 1*0 + 3*1 + 5*2 + 7*3 + ... + (2m-1)(m-1)
T(m^2) = m + sum i=1 to m: (2i - 1)(i - 1)

Which is a cubic equation of the form:

T(m^2) = a m^3 + b m^2 + c m + d

You can calculate 4 sets of values for m and T(m^2) (m = 1, 2, 3, 4), then use linear algebra to solve for a, b, c, d. (In this case d is zero).

Code:
|  1   1   1   1 |  | a |    |  1 |
|  8   4   2   1 |  | b |    |  5 |
| 27   9   3   1 |  | c | =  | 16 |
| 64  16   4   1 |  | d |    | 38 |

| a |   |  -1/6   3/6  -3/6   1/6 | |  1 |
| b |   |   9/6 -24/6  21/6  -6/6 | |  5 |
| c | = | -26/6  57/6 -42/6  11/6 | | 16 |
| d |   |  24/6 -36/6  24/6  -6/6 | | 38 |

| a |   |  4/6 |
| b |   | -3/6 |
| c | = |  5/6 |
| d |   |  0/6 |

T(m^2) = 4/6 m^3 - 3/6 m^2 + 5/6 m
 
Last edited:
@rcgldr
I agree with your approach, But please tell me how can we solve this equation

##T(m^2) = m + \sqrt{m^2 - 1} + \sqrt{m^2 - 2} + \sqrt{m^2 - 3} + ... + \sqrt{m^2 - {m^2 - 3}} + 1##
 
22990atinesh said:
tell me how can we solve this equation.
I'm not sure it's possible without the integer floor function keeping the pattern simple. It's a non-linear recurrence equation. Link to wolfram example:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sum+i+=+1+to+n,+sqrt(i)

A linear recurrence equation has the form T(n) = a T(n-1) + b T(n-2) + c T(n-3) ... . For example the Fibonacci numbers are T(n) = T(n-1) + T(n-2), T(1) = 1, T(0) = 0. These can't be solved, but can be converted into a matrix form:

Code:
       | 1  1 |
   a = | 1  0 |

       | 1 |
f(1) = | 0 |

f(i+1) = a f(i)

f(i+j) = a^j f(i)

Powers of the matrix can be generated using repeated squaring: a^7 = (a * a^2 * a^4).
 
Last edited:

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