What is the underlying principle behind Le Chatelier's principle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the underlying principles of Le Chatelier's principle, which states that a system at equilibrium will shift in response to external changes. Participants explore whether this principle is rooted in the Second Law of Thermodynamics, thermodynamic concepts, or other theoretical frameworks. The scope includes theoretical interpretations and applications in chemistry and physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether Le Chatelier's principle is based on the Second Law of Thermodynamics and expresses uncertainty about its explanation.
  • Another participant describes stable equilibrium as a system's ability to recover from small perturbations, noting that certain conditions can lead to breakdowns of this principle.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that Le Chatelier's principle can be derived from thermodynamic principles, recommending reference materials for further understanding.
  • One participant proposes that the principle can be understood as a minimization of free energy, particularly in the context of exothermic reactions and changes in temperature or pressure.
  • Another participant introduces a perspective using harmonic oscillators, explaining how small perturbations around equilibrium can lead to restoring forces, while cautioning that this applies primarily to stable equilibrium states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of the underlying principles of Le Chatelier's principle, with no consensus reached on a singular explanation. Multiple competing views remain regarding its theoretical foundations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the breakdown of Le Chatelier's principle can occur under specific conditions, such as unstable or metastable equilibria, which may not be as prevalent in chemistry compared to other disciplines.

Miffymycat
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What's the underlying principle which is behind Le Chatelier's principle that equilibria shift to oppose external changes? Is it the Second Law of Thermodynamics? If so, why? Or is it some other principle? Or just an observed fact we can't explain!? I've quoted this Law for years without realising I don't understand it!
 
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It is inevitable in any circumstance of stable equilibrium. A system in stable equilibrium, such as a ball in a dish, recovers from a small perturbation. Normally one thinks of, say, pushing the ball to one side and releasing. But what if you keep your finger there instead of releasing the ball? The forces that would restore equilibrium when the finger is removed must already be acting.
It follows that the rule can break down in some circumstances:
- unstable equilibrium
- metastable equilibrium
- a perturbation that exceeds the range of stable equilibrium
It may be that such circumstances are rarer in Chemistry then in some other disciplines.
 
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I think it can be described as minimization of free energy.

When a reaction is exothermic, and the system is heated up, Le Chatelier says that the reaction equilibrium state will shift in the direction of the reactants. This makes sense because more heat will reduce the stability of the products relative to the reactants if it is exothermic.

In other cases of equilibrium, I think it is the same, such as with pressure and gases.
 
One other way to see it, is thanks to Harmonic Oscilators.
Well it's not an HO, but!
At every equilibrium point r0, you can expand your potential (which causes the force) in Taylor series. For small changes, you have:
V(r+r0)= V(r0) + (r-r0) dV/dr|r=r0+(r-r0)2 d2V/dr2|r=r0+O(r3)

the 2nd term on the right side because of equilibrium is ZERO.
I can set V(r0)=0
So every region around the equilibrium is like an HO, V(r)=A r2

So if you disturb your system from its equilibrium a little bit, there will be a force appearing that will tend to bring it back to its initial state.
Of course that is for very small perturbations , small enough that I can forget the terms of r3, but works fine.

In that way, you can understand that any kind of system that is in an equilibrium state, if you drag it out of it, in "first orders" will try to return in a way. For what I used above I didn't use any kind of "determining what forces there are" only that my system was at an equilibrium and then something dragged it out of it.

Does it work in everything?
Well I guess yes. The only thing that is important, is to have a stable equilibrium states, and not an unstable-saddle ones. Otherwise my expansion and so peturbation would have no meaning.
 

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