What is the vector magnetic potential for a rod extending along the Z-axis?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the vector magnetic potential for a rod of length L extending along the Z-axis, specifically at a point P located a distance r from the center of the rod in the XY plane. Participants explore different methods and formulas, including the vector Poisson's equation and comparisons with the Biot-Savart method.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about starting the calculation and mentions the use of the vector Poisson's equation A = u / 4pi * integral ( J / R') dv', indicating confusion about how to incorporate the volume and current of the rod.
  • Another participant suggests modeling the rod as a magnetic dipole with dipole strength ## \vec{m}=\vec{M}V ## and references a Wikipedia article for the formula of the magnetic vector potential for a magnetic dipole.
  • Several participants note that the Biot-Savart method is used in their textbooks, but they are required to compare it with the method involving the vector Poisson's equation, leading to confusion about converting quantities.
  • A participant references Griffith's E&M textbook, discussing the computation of vector potential for arbitrary distributions of magnetization and the equivalence to magnetic surface currents and bulk magnetic currents.
  • Another participant elaborates on the derivation of surface currents and bulk currents, suggesting that the proof of the equation ## J_m=\nabla \times M/\mu_o ## is complex and typically accepted without detailed proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem, with no consensus on the best method to use or the clarity of the formulas involved. Multiple competing views on the methods and interpretations of the equations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific formulas and methods without resolving the mathematical steps or assumptions required for their application. The discussion highlights the complexity of integrating different approaches to calculating the vector magnetic potential.

Vaclav
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I am trying to calculate the vector magnetic potential for a rod of length L extending along the Z-axis. I was asked to find the magnetic potential at a point P which is a distance r from the center of the rod in the XY plane.

I know the formula I have to use is the vector Poisson's equation A = u / 4pi * integral ( J / R') dv', where the bounds are in respect to v'. The dv' refers to the volume of the object (the rod).

I am not sure how I might start this problem. I have thought about using J = I * (pi * a^2), where I is the current of the rod and a is the radius. As well, R' can be calculated using r = (z^2 + r^2)^1/2. Besides that, I am confused on how I might take into account of the volume and current of the rod. I would greatly appreciate any help that can be offered.
 
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Vaclav said:
I am trying to calculate the vector magnetic potential for a rod of length L extending along the Z-axis. I was asked to find the magnetic potential at a point P which is a distance r from the center of the rod in the XY plane.

I know the formula I have to use is the vector Poisson's equation A = u / 4pi * integral ( J / R') dv', where the bounds are in respect to v'. The dv' refers to the volume of the object (the rod).

I am not sure how I might start this problem. I have thought about using J = I * (pi * a^2), where I is the current of the rod and a is the radius. As well, R' can be calculated using r = (z^2 + r^2)^1/2. Besides that, I am confused on how I might take into account of the volume and current of the rod. I would greatly appreciate any help that can be offered.
Presumably the rod has some magnetization ## \vec{M} ## per unit volume. The rod can be modeled as a magnetic dipole with dipole strength ## \vec{m}=\vec{M}V ##. If you google "magnetic dipole", Wikipedia has a good write-up that even gives the formula for the magnetic vector potential ## \vec{A} ## for a magnetic dipole.
 
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Unfortunately, this does not help me. My book does have the formulae for the example, but they find it using the Biot-Savart method and they want me to compare it by using a different method it seems. My professor as well indicated that I should use the formula I listed above, but I am not sure how I can convert the quantities into something I can use.
 
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Vaclav said:
Unfortunately, this does not help me. My book does have the formulae for the example, but they find it using the Biot-Savart method and they want me to compare it by using a different method it seems. My professor as well indicated that I should use the formula I listed above, but I am not sure how I can convert the quantities into something I can use.
Griffith's E&M textbook computes the vector potential ## A ## for an arbitrary distribution of magnetization of microscopic magnetic dipoles and shows by a couple of vector identities for integrals that it is equivalent to magnetic surface currents per unit length ## K_m=M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ## plus bulk magnetic currents ## J_m=\nabla \times M/\mu_o ##. ## \\ ## Griffiths simply presents the derivation along with the result, but it is really quite an important one , and he might do well to give it additional emphasis. I highly recommend you read carefully through the derivation in Griffiths textbook. ## \\ ## ## \\ ## The vector potential ## A ## can then be calculated from the surface currents : ## A(x)=\frac{\mu_o}{4 \pi} \int \frac{K_m(x')}{|x-x'|} \, dS' ##. (To get from this integral to the Wikipedia result for ## A ## might take a little work, but if you keep just the lowest order terms, the results should agree.) By taking ## B=\nabla \times A ## you get the same answer for ## B ## that you would by doing a Biot-Savart integral with the surface currents. ## \\ ## (Please check the ## \mu_o/(4 \pi ) ## in the above formula, but I think I got it right. I often do these E&M calculations in c.g.s. units where the constants are different.) ## \\ ## Computing the vector potential ## A ## and then taking ##B= \nabla \times A ## is often easier than using Biot-Savart integrals to compute ## B ##.
 
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@Vaclav Just an additional input: Oftentimes, the magnetic surface currents are shown by using ## J_m=\nabla \times M/\mu_o ## along with Stokes theorem at a surface boundary to give surface current per unit length ## K_m=M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ##. One can expect bulk currents ## J_m ## to depend upon some vector gradient of the magnetization ## M ##. In general, a proof of the equation ## J_m=\nabla \times M/\mu_o ## would be quite detailed and it can be expected that the student accepts this formula without a detailed proof. .. Griffiths alternatively takes a rather unique approach and computes the vector potential ## A ## for an arbitrary distribution of magnetic dipoles. The vector potential from a single microscopic dipole is already known, and he uses superposition along with a couple vector identities to generate the result that the bulk currents and surface currents must be what is given above by using the result that ## A(x)=\frac{\mu_o}{4 \pi} \int \frac{J_m(x')}{|x-x'|} \, d^3x' ##. The result of this derivation is of much significance. Alternatively, you can accept the equations without proof that ## J_m=\nabla \times M/\mu_o ## which from Stokes theorem results in ## K_m=M \times \hat{n}/\mu_o ## at the surface. Griffiths proves these in a very unique way and his is quite an interesting derivation.
 

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