What is the Voltage Reading in this Circuit?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the interpretation of voltmeter readings in electrical circuits, particularly in the context of inductors and changing magnetic fields. Participants explore the relationship between scalar potential differences and the work done by electric fields along a path.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a voltmeter measures the scalar potential difference between two points or the work done to move a test charge along a path.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the difference between these two interpretations.
  • A third participant introduces the relationship between electric fields and potentials, noting that gauge transformations affect the definitions of potentials.
  • One participant asserts that the voltmeter reading cannot simply be the scalar potential difference due to gauge invariance, suggesting that the path integral approach is necessary.
  • A later post presents a scenario involving an inductor and a changing current, leading to confusion about the expected voltmeter reading and the relationship between induced electric fields and measured voltage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty and confusion regarding the correct interpretation of voltmeter readings in the context of inductors and changing magnetic fields. Multiple competing views remain, particularly concerning the implications of gauge invariance and the correct formulation of voltage in dynamic situations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of their arguments on specific conditions, such as the presence of inductance and the behavior of electric fields in response to changing magnetic fields. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the definitions of potentials and voltmeter readings.

JustinLevy
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When working out circuits problems, can we consider a voltmeter to read the difference in the scalar potential between two points
[tex]Voltmeter = V(b) - V(a),[/tex]
or does it tell us a "path potential" / work to move a test charge along a path
[tex]Voltmeter = -\int_a^b \mathbf{E} \cdot d\mathbf{l}[/tex]
?
 
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What's the difference?
 
In general, the potentials are defined as such:
[tex]\mathbf{E} = - \nabla V - \frac{\partial}{\partial t} \mathbf{A}[/tex]
[tex]\mathbf{B} = \nabla \times \mathbf{A}[/tex]
That doesn't define them uniquely, but at least up to a gauge transformation.

In cases where an eletric field is being generated by a changing magnetic field (such as in an inductor), then those two suggestions in the openning post will differ. Therefore this is relevant for asking what a voltmeter would read across an inductor.
 
I just realized that the answer cannot be V(b)-V(a), because then the measurements would not be gauge invariant. So the answer must be the E.dl one.

Is that correct?
 
That simple post has got me so confused now.

Consider this:
15i7zab.gif

Let's say that this loop has inductance L, no resistance, and that initially there is no current in the loop. Then at time t=0, a current source is used to increase the current at a steady rate (I = a t).

Current goes up the green wire, around the blue loop, and then up the red wire. Additionally, consider a voltmeter connected with the ground on the red point, and the "positive" terminal on the green point.

What does the volt meter read?

Well, when the current starts increasing, a magnetic field will be generated in the positive direction. It appears that this increase in flux will cause an eletric field around the loop against the current, which would mean the integral of - E.dl from the red to the green point is negative.

This seems to argue the voltmeter would read Voltage = - L dI/dt.


This is clearly wrong, as we should get:
Voltage = L dI/dt

What the heck is going on here?
 

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