What really cause light to appear slower in media?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms that cause light to appear slower when traveling through different media. Participants explore various explanations, including the absorption-emission process and wave interference, while questioning the implications of these models on phase and group velocities of light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that light appears slower in a medium due to the absorption and re-emission of photons by atoms, which affects the drift speed of light.
  • Others argue that the interaction of light with atoms leads to the emission of new electromagnetic waves that interfere with the original light, resulting in a perceived decrease in phase velocity.
  • A participant questions whether the phase velocity decrease is due to the drift velocity of re-emitted photons or the phase difference between absorbed and emitted light.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that the absorption-emission model is a simplified visualization and that light interacts with all matter in its path, akin to a runner moving through mud, rather than being destroyed and recreated.
  • One participant reflects on the wave perspective, indicating that light interference leads to delayed light and a smaller phase covered per second, while also considering the implications of light's wavelength relative to atomic spacing on absorption mechanisms.
  • There is a discussion about whether the absorption process is primarily governed by spontaneous or stimulated absorption/emission, particularly when considering photons colliding with atoms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the mechanisms behind the perceived slowing of light in media, and the discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of the absorption-emission process and its relation to atomic transitions, as well as the significance of elastic absorption in different media types.

EHT
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Some textbooks that I read explain it in a way kind of like this:
In a material the photons is absorbed by an atom and then re-emitted a short time later, it then travels at a short distance to the next atom and get absorbed&emitted again and so on. How quickly the atoms in a material can absorb and re-emit the photon and how dense the atoms decides the speed of light in that material. So the light appears slower because it has a smaller “drift speed”.

But recently I realize an alternative explanation:
Atoms respond to the light by radiating electromagnetic wave. This “new light” interferes with the “old light” in some way that result in delayed light, consequently effectively the light covers a smaller phase each second. Which gives the impression of a lower phase velocity . However the group velocity is changing in a complicated way.

I think that the first explanation does not explain the change in phase velocity of light. if we consider light traveling into a slab of negative refractive index non-dispersive material, let’s say the light is directed perpendicular to the slab. The phase velocity’s direction will be flipped, but group velocity’s direction in the material will not change. Only the second explanation can explain the flipped phase velocity direction. I guess that the velocity that we get in the first explanation is actually belongs to the group velocity. It makes sense to me that the front most of the photon stream determines the first information that the light delivers. Am I right?
 
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You can read the explanation in the FAQ in the General Physics Forum.
 
I have read it, but it doesn't really answering my question. I already agree that the absorption-emission process isn't related with the atomic transition. I was thinking that the media is a fluid, I thought that there will be no such fine pattern as in the solid, therefore the phonons' effect will not be important. And for the absorption process I was talking about a non-energy shifting or an elastic absorption, which gives delay too, but I don't know whether it is significant or not. I don't really understand about this, would you mind to explain?

Despite of the absorption-emission process. What I want to ask is what really cause the phase velocity of light to be decreased?
1. decreased "drift velocity" of photons ( they aren't the same photons, they are re-emitted all the time)
or
2. phase difference between absorbed and emitted light
or
something else
 
The absorption-emission picture of electromagnetic waves traveling through a dielectric medium is just a beginner's visualization model. The wave is interacting with all the matter in its path, not just a single atom. So a better visualization is that of someone running through mud. The runner is not continually destroyed and recreated. Rather, he is slowed down when the interaction with surrounding material is stronger.
 
@chrisbaird during the silence of this thread, I already upgraded my understanding. Now I understand that in the wave point of view, the light is not absorbed, the light is just interfering with the new light waves emitted by the atoms that result in delayed light(advanced in phase),this can easily shown by using simple phasor diagram. Consequently effectively the light covers a smaller phase each second. Which then gives the impression of a lower phase velocity. This wave point of view is corrrect for every wavelength. And for the case of light's wavelength larger than atom's spacing, if we view the light as photons, the photons will be absorbed and re-emitted by the atoms as a group (phonons). My problem is if the light's wavelength is smaller than the distance between neighboring atoms, then one photon will only collide with one atom at a time. Therefore we need another absorption mechanism involving quantum mechanics. Is it primarily governed by spontaneous or stimulated absorption/emission?or else?
 
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