What rules, energy or entropy?

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This discussion centers on the relationship between energy and entropy in physical systems, emphasizing that they are independent and can influence each other under varying conditions. Participants clarify that while the entropy of an isolated system tends to increase, energy conservation is maintained, as per the First Law of Thermodynamics. The conversation highlights examples such as the behavior of iodine gas and the operation of a centrifuge, illustrating scenarios where entropy and energy compete. Ultimately, the consensus is that understanding these principles requires careful consideration of system boundaries and conditions.

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  • #31


One thing you cannot describe a Carnot cycle engine as is a constant volume process. None of the four legs on an indicator diagram occur at constant volume. I do not know of a mechanism (if that is the right word) that is capable of extracting work with the working fluid at constant volume in a carnot engine.

There is a type of heat engine known as constant volume ( or Rochas) cycle engine that has two of the legs vertical (const vol)and two with the adiabatic gamma law expansion.

Another type with a (single) constant volume leg and a single adiabatic leg is the Lenoir gas engine.

However work is only only during the non constant volume parts of each cycle.
 
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  • #32


Studiot said:
One thing you cannot describe a Carnot cycle engine as is a constant volume process. None of the four legs on an indicator diagram occur at constant volume. I do not know of a mechanism (if that is the right word) that is capable of extracting work with the working fluid at constant volume in a carnot engine.

There is a type of heat engine known as constant volume ( or Rochas) cycle engine that has two of the legs vertical (const vol)and two with the adiabatic gamma law expansion.

Another type with a (single) constant volume leg and a single adiabatic leg is the Lenoir gas engine.

However work is only only during the non constant volume parts of each cycle.
We are really going in circles now. Your concerns have nothing to do with whether an isolated system which is not internally in thermodynamic equilibrium will tend toward maximum entropy. I gave you a system that is not in thermodynamic equilibrium and showed you that it will end up in a final state of thermal equilibrium with zero entropy increase.

Why does the heat flow have to occur in a constant volume process? If heat flow occurs in a constant volume process, there will always be a net increase in entropy. It is only if heat flow occurs isothermally that there can be no increase in entropy. That is what occurs in a Carnot engine.

AM
 

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