What Sci-Fi Got Wrong: Alcohol in Space

[Hornbein]

- characters speaking weird made-up dialects - i get that people in the future space empire might have different languages and dialects, but don't try to make them up and inflict them on the reader

It works quite well in A Clockwork Orange.

I once saw a Vince Diesel SF action movie that had been dubbed into a language I didn't recognize at all. It made it a lot more exotic and alien, very effective. It really seemed like something from another planet.

It turned out to be Thai, but not the polite Thai that foreigners are exposed to.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Remember in K-Pax, prot explains the sunglasses, "I forgot how bright it is on this planet" (or something along those lines...

That's what I love about PF. It takes a true nerd to go directly from cool sunglasses to K-Pax.

It's something I would do and then get strange looks from the non PF people around me.

 

[sbrothy]

That's what I love about PF. It takes a true nerd to go directly from cool sunglasses to K-Pax.

It's something I would do and then get strange looks from the non PF people around me.

I realize the comment wasn't aimed at me. Still, you wouldn't believe some of the strange looks I get from my immediate circle of acquaintances, not to mention complete strangers. Without even opening my mouth! :)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I realize the comment wasn't aimed at me. Still, you wouldn't believe some of the strange looks I get from my immediate circle of acquaintances, not to mention complete strangers. Without even opening my mouth! :)

I have to be very careful. I am an extrovert with a wicked sense of humor. And I can take over a room and have everyone cracking up. But my sense of humor can cross the line for some people. And if I say what I'm really thinking, most people would have no idea what I'm talking about.

Most people probably wouldn't know K-Pax. "K-Pax what? Is that a rap singer?"

 

[gmax137]

It takes a true nerd

Thanks! I take "nerd" as a compliment, unlike "dork" or "dweeb."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Thanks! I take "nerd" as a compliment, unlike "dork" or "dweeb."

Me too. I often refer to myself as a nerd, and proud of it!

 

[White Hole]

In the movies we are almost always able to put up a fight against invading aliens. There is almost no chance that we would be anywhere close to evenly matched. It would likely be like ants rising up against humans.

And any invading aliens probably have antivirus software in the mother ship. Don't expect Jeff Goldblum to save you.

The aliens from Independence Day seemed to be brainwashed; they have no reason for antivirus, because nobody had ever thought about viruses. Computer viruses wouldn't exist in their civilization, no reason for them to

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Here is something they almost always get wrong. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it done correctly. Whenever we see a show or movie using an MRI scanner [Magnetic Resonance Imaging for medical purposes], they imply or write the plot suggesting the magnet doesn't turn on until they start the scan. FAIL! The magnet normally remains on indefinitely. The only thing involved in a scan is the emission of RF to wobble your Hydrogen atoms; and then detecting the emissions back from those atoms.

 

[White Hole]

Science fiction books, at least the ones I've read, tend to get known science right, and whatever hypothetical science is needed for the story, well, it doesn't matter, that's up to the author.

Science fiction television and most movies, however, are replete with errors. A specific example would be an episode in Star Trek: The Next Generation in which Data says the surface temperature of a planet is something ridiculous below -273°C.

More general examples of consistent errors I have posted elsewhere and reproduce here. I call these my Rules of Hollywood Science, which movies and television shows seem to follow religiously:

• Sounds must always be present in the vacuum of space.
• Lasers must make interesting noises.
• The light of a laser beam must be brightly visible even in a vacuum, and it must travel slower than the speed of light, so that viewers can get a sense of the beam's trajectory over a couple frames of film.
• Ships maneuvering in a weightless vacuum shall bank when they turn, as if they are flying through an atmosphere in a gravitational field.
• Camera shots of an actor's face in front of a video display should show what's being displayed projected onto the actor's face, in focus, as if the display were projecting through a lens. It is not necessary for the projection to be reversed.
• Control panels must have high-current power running through them, so that when disaster strikes, the control panel emits showers of sparks.
• Two or more ships in space must always orient themselves as if there is a universal "up" direction agreed upon by all.
• When a ship flies by the camera while orbiting a planet, the viewer must see the ship fly along a curved path, as if the planet is small enough for an observer to notice the curvature before the receding ship becomes too small to see.
• Actors should wear helmets with bright internal lights that illuminate their faces, thereby preventing them from seeing anything in low-light environments. They have directors to tell them what to do; they don't really need to see.
• Aliens are always humanoid.
• A person escaping from an underwater confined space must be able to hold breath during extreme physical exertion longer than is humanly possible.
• Langauge barriers usually don't exist.
• Sound travels at infinite velocity. The sound from events (such as explosions) visible far away in the distance must be heard simultaneously with the event.
• Computers must always make cute little noises when keys are pressed or when characters or images appear on the display.
• Text communication via computer must appear on a display at average human reading speed, as if being transmitted by a 1970s-era 300 baud modem.
• Real space-time communication delays due to astronomical distances can be safely ignored.
• During any countdown sequence (such as with a bomb on a timer), it is permissible for each one-second time interval to contain dialog and action that far exceeds one second in duration.
• the list goes on...

My rules:
Sounds, of course, are not present in space; the viewer can hear them, but nobody else should respond unless they are connected via platform
Lasers do make interesting noises...
Lasers of course travel at the speed of light, but plasma guns don't
Space travel is complicated
Can you fix that?
It takes a lot of energy to power a spaceship, and there is a safety warning
They don't need to be oriented, but there IS a universal Up, just like there's a universal North, East, South, West, and Down
I agree, this needs to be fixed.
I agree, this needs to be fixed.
There are pigs, and spiders, and birds, and trees; most of them are humanoid because the evolution stops with humans.
I agree, this definitely needs to be fixed
Translators
I agree, this needs to be fixed
It has the same purpose as the ping you sometimes get on your phone
This can be fixed, depends on timeline
This should definitely be fixed, quantum communication is the way to go
This should be fixed and applied to all movies (Looking at you James Bond)

 

[pinball1970]

The thing that always gets me is where the alien is a monster that constantly drools acid or some other fluid and you never see them off-screen chugging gatorade to replenish their bodily fluids.

Dallas: 'ive only ever seen that with molecular acid...'

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Old episode of House: A woman put into an MRI has metal screws in her leg she didn't disclose. The story was the screws got hot due to the magnetic field.

NO! It is a static magnetic field. What generates the heat is the RF emitted to wobble the H atoms.The magnetic field does things like pull the screws out of the bone! We had that happen to an old WWI vet back in the 80s. [I worked on MRI units]

However, I think all screws and metal used internally is stainless and not a problem magnetically. Even the WWI vet had stainless pins in his leg but they were of such a low quality [because of the period] that they were still dangerous.

 

[pinball1970]

There are inconsistencies regarding the size of the alien in “ALIEN”
When it bursts out of Kane and runs away it is about the size of squirrel within a few hours it is so big it kills Brett and lifts him off the ground in the process.
Where did all that extra mass come from?
Assuming it did not raid the kitchen?
When it grabs Dallas in the air duct it is not as big again its human size.
I know they tinkered with the plot while they were filming but that was an inconsistency for me.
I still love the film, the ultimate sci fi thriller/horror combo, not many good ones.
Contact

Why didn’t Ellies kit record anything? Why ok before and after but static for 18 hours during the trip?
Assuming everything was not fried (everything else seemed to be ok) should not physical laws apply on near Vega? Just as they do here?
I know the ending is supposed to be bitter sweet so she could not be vindicated at the end but a reasonable explanation was not given.
The other thing is if she went to Vega and back at the speed of light it would take 50 years, I take it a worm hold just cuts that down to practically zero?
If that is the case why does 18 hours equate to an instant?
Should it not be the other way round at least to some extent?
Using the 1-v2c2 I can put Ellie to near to C I get 18 hours = 25 days

 

[gmax137]

There are inconsistencies regarding the size of the alien in “ALIEN”
When it bursts out of Kane and runs away it is about the size of squirrel within a few hours it is so big it kills Brett and lifts him off the ground in the process.
Where did all that extra mass come from?
Assuming it did not raid the kitchen?
When it grabs Dallas in the air duct it is not as big again its human size.
I know they tinkered with the plot while they were filming but that was an inconsistency for me.
I still love the film, the ultimate sci fi thriller/horror combo, not many good ones.

I saw Alien in the movie theater when it first came out, like the first weekend, before there were any spoilers. I still remember when it erupted from the guy's chest -- everyone in the theater jumped in their seats. A loud collective gasp with some screaming. Awesome.

 

[pinball1970]

I saw Alien in the movie theater when it first came out, like the first weekend, before there were any spoilers. I still remember when it erupted from the guy's chest -- everyone in the theater jumped in their seats. A loud collective gasp with some screaming. Awesome.

I was too young unfortunately, it was an 'X' in the UK so 18 or over only.
That would have been something to see on the big screen first.
The only real cinema experience I had like that was Jaws - I think it was an 'A' So accompanied by an adult (thanks mum) Scared the hell out of me.

Back to Alien, have a look at you tube cut scenes. Lambert is cornered by the Alien and Parker is screaming at her to get out of the way.
The Alien looks like a shuffling E.T. As in THE E.T. from the kids film, ridiculous. Good job they cut it but again the size. It yo yos mass size that makes no sense.
BUT...Love that film.
Got to mention molecular acid again too. Did that irritate @Borek ?

 

[Bystander]

Did that irritate @Borek ?

It did me, and I'll say "Yes" for Borek.

 

[DaveC426913]

One I've noticed often is the idea that in 400 years or a galaxy far, far away, people in space ships will be pouring brandy. There is an obsession with booze in much of sci fi. While I doubt the use of drugs will disappear, I don't think people and aliens will forever be pouring a glass.

No? You don't think that there are traditions we have today that are 400 years old and have spread throughout civilization?

Smoking a fine cigar.
Japanese tea ceremony.
Extending a hand in greeting (to show that it holds no weapon).
Making bread in a kiln.
Practicing archery.
"Good-bye" (God Be With Ye).
"Jesus Christ!"
etc.

I don't think it is an accident that a fine tradition like pouring brandy shows up in futuristic shows. I think it's thought through quite carefully as a timeless symbol of long friendships or new friendships, camaraderie, taking time for the good things in life - not to mention a reverence for timeless traditions.

 

[phinds]

There's also smoking on spaceships in some sci-fic movies and that always strikes me as silly.

 

[DaveC426913]

There's also smoking on spaceships in some sci-fic movies and that always strikes me as silly.

This is a deliberate antidote to the straight-laced, shiny-chrome, by-the-regs military organization of Star Trek.

They're not starship officers; they're blue collar labourers, whose job is on a spaceship.

In a society where regs are a cute fiction, why would normal people not smoke?

Not a safety thing; people smoke on boats all the time. Besides, I think the idea is they've solved the fire-in-a-closed-vessel danger by then. And that's is a message too:

Technology changes constantly; human behaviour does not.

 

[phinds]

I think the idea is they've solved the fire-in-a-closed-vessel danger by then

I wasn't thinking of fire but of needing a more robust air purification system, PLUS the fact that a spaceship is a closed environment and we already know the danger of second hand some. I KNOW I'm being logical in a situation where it really doesn't apply, but I can't help myself.

 

[BWV]

So how many human crewmembers does the Enterprise really need with nearly god-like AI? Just maybe one or two disposable ones for landing parties?

 

[Hornbein]

As for The Alien changing mass, that tradition goes back to King Kong.

 

[Filip Larsen]

So how many human crewmembers does the Enterprise really need with nearly god-like AI? Just maybe one or two disposable ones for landing parties?

The loss of crew is their own fault! One would think the computer or some of the highly intelligent crew onboard would have picked up on the correlation between uniform color (when that color is red) and fatality rate in landing parties, but noooo.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No? You don't think that there are traditions we have today that are 400 years old and have spread throughout civilization?

Smoking a fine cigar.
Japanese tea ceremony.
Extending a hand in greeting (to show that it holds no weapon).
Making bread in a kiln.
Practicing archery.
"Good-bye" (God Be With Ye).
"Jesus Christ!"
etc.

I don't think it is an accident that a fine tradition like pouring brandy shows up in futuristic shows. I think it's thought through quite carefully as a timeless symbol of long friendships or new friendships, camaraderie, taking time for the good things in life - not to mention a reverence for timeless traditions.

I think the fact that you are dumping poison in your body will kill it. Drinking will eventually go the way of smoking, as it should!

 

[DaveC426913]

I think the fact that you are dumping poison in your body will kill it.

But we've done that for all the recorded history. Why have we not stopped, and what would change in the future to stop it?

Drinking will eventually go the way of smoking, as it should!

We figured out that smoking causes death by cancer only in the last 50 years. And in surprisingly small amounts - unlike alcohol, which, in moderation, is considered healthy.

 

[italicus]

Let me throw my coin here.

Did anybody notice that , at least in old movies like Star Trek, the astronauts always stand still ? This is wrong, one can stand still in a spaceship only when it is accelerated...continuously accelerated...! No gravity is supposed therein.
An artificial gravity can be created by rotation with a given angular velocity. This is done in Interstellar.
But one as to be careful: moving into a rotating reference frame , like the Endurance, gives problems with the Coriolis force, which can displace you aside, it depends on vec\omega and vec\v.
There is a good lesson by Walter Lewin on the Tube.

 

[DaveC426913]

Let me throw my coin here.

Did anybody notice that , at least in old movies like Star Trek, the astronauts always stand still ? This is wrong, one can stand still in a spaceship only when it is accelerated...continuously accelerated...! No gravity is supposed therein.
An artificial gravity can be created by rotation with a given angular velocity. This is done in Interstellar.
But one as to be careful: moving into a rotating reference frame , like the Endurance, gives problems with the Coriolis force, which can displace you aside, it depends on vec\omega and vec\v.
There is a good lesson by Walter Lewin on the Tube.

??

The Star Trek universe has ships that generate their own gravity using technobabble.

 

[italicus]

The Star Trek universe has ships that generate their own gravity using technobabble

What ‘s a technobabble? Too many years have passed!

 

[DaveC426913]

What ‘s a technobabble? Too many years have passed!

Actually, I don't think they ever get into the tech of it. They're just talk about the "gravity generators". They are linked with the "inertial dampers" that stops everyone from being wall-jam.

Can anybody list a specific film or show that shows people acting as if there's gravity, even though there shouldn't be any? I was thinking of Space:1999, but I think they actually float when they are in the Eagles in space.

 

[russ_watters]

The other thing is if she went to Vega and back at the speed of light it would take 50 years, I take it a worm hold just cuts that down to practically zero?
If that is the case why does 18 hours equate to an instant?
Should it not be the other way round at least to some extent?
Using the 1-v2c2 I can put Ellie to near to C I get 18 hours = 25 days

Wormhole rules:

• Wormholes take as long to traverse as is necessary to prove how dangerous they are.
• Wormholes are violent; they will shake the ship to slightly less than the shields/dampers can withstand.
• Shaking/turbulence is always horizontal, never vertical, and certainly never producing negative g's.

 

[russ_watters]

So how many human crewmembers does the Enterprise really need with nearly god-like AI? Just maybe one or two disposable ones for landing parties?

I mean at what point do they stop inviting junior crew on away missions and issuing them red shirts?

 

[DaveC426913]

Why didn’t Ellies kit record anything? Why ok before and after but static for 18 hours during the trip?

(It never occurred until now to me that my assumption wasn't the assumption every one else made:)

It was deliberately jammed by the Vegans.

I think the monologue by ersatz Dad avatar said something about humans "aren't ready yet", that they had to be led there one small step at a time, or some such. So, they've essentially made Ellie a modern prophet.

 

[russ_watters]

What ‘s a technobabble? Too many years have passed!

Technical-sounding gibberish.

Actually, I don't think they ever get into the tech of it. They're just talk about the "gravity generators".

According to the technical manual, they provide a controlled stream of gravitons similar to the functioning of the tractor beam. Power from the electro plasma system (EPS) is channeled into a hollow chamber of anicium titanide 454. Suspended in the center of the cylinder, in pressurized chylon gas, is a superconducting stator of thoronium arkenide. The stator rotates at 125,000 rpm, generating the graviton field.

 

[DaveC426913]

Technical-sounding gibberish.

According to the technical manual, they provide a controlled stream of gravitons similar to the functioning of the tractor beam. Power from the electro plasma system (EPS) is channeled into a hollow chamber of anicium titanide 454. Suspended in the center of the cylinder, in pressurized chylon gas, is a superconducting stator of thoronium arkenide. The stator rotates at 125,000 rpm, generating the graviton field.

I wonder if they ever explain how it manages to be perpendicular to the decks at every point in the ship - as if the emitter is near infinity.

 

[russ_watters]

I wonder if they ever explain how it manages to be perpendicular to the decks at every point in the ship - as if the emitter is near infinity.

Were you not listening? It's a controlled stream of gravitons!

 

[pinball1970]

(It never occurred until now to me that my assumption wasn't the assumption every one else made:)

It was deliberately jammed by the Vegans.

I think the monologue by ersatz Dad avatar said something about humans "aren't ready yet", that they had to be led there one small step at a time, or some such. So, they've essentially made Ellie a modern prophet.

That rings a small bell. I think that has been asked and answered before on pf.
Makes sense too thanks.

 

[Vanadium 50]

What ‘s a technobabble?

Treknobabble!

The in-series explanation of why gravity is vertical is "gravity plates". These are apparently self contained with no central control, for plot reasons. "Captain - the creature is isolated to Deck 7" "Set the gravity plates to 1000 g's and send Ensign Timmy down with a mop."

 

[phinds]

"Set the gravity plates to 1000 g's and send Ensign Timmy down with a mop."

But issue him a red shirt first, just in case.

 

[BWV]

Got to cut people in the pre-CGI era some slack, no excuse now though

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Got to cut people in the pre-CGI era some slack, no excuse now though

There is no excuse, is there, apart from science and storytelling don't always play nicely. Exhibit A, Brad Pitt's abominable Ad Astra. I am conflicted vis a vis a recommendation, because it's so lame, but there is the scene with the monkey, and that's hilariously dumb, so what you gunna do?

The in-series explanation of why gravity is vertical is "gravity plates".

I'm using gravity plates in my latest novel, @Vanadium 50, and I thought about this issue for a bit, but it's too complicated to describe anything but 'flat' gravity. Besides, we don't really know how they might work, so I figure it is fair to adopt a degree of narrative license with them.

 

[DaveC426913]

There is no excuse, is there, apart from science and storytelling don't always play nicely. Exhibit A, Brad Pitt's abominable Ad Astra. I am conflicted vis a vis a recommendation, because it's so lame, but there is the scene with the monkey, and that's hilariously dumb, so what you gunna do?

It is a rare film that drives me to anger. Ad Astra was such a film.

It was the whole gravity-pulsey widget that was activated for no apparent reason and could destroy the world - but could not be shut off by anyone except our hero with his mad social skillz (oh but first we'll grind to a STOP in space for a Wellness check before continuing on our way with our infinite fuel supply) that was the entire premise for the plot.

Was this written by a grade school kid with delusions of grandeur?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

But we've done that for all the recorded history. Why have we not stopped, and what would change in the future to stop it?We figured out that smoking causes death by cancer only in the last 50 years. And in surprisingly small amounts - unlike alcohol, which, in moderation, is considered healthy.

We've done it for recorded history? We also did blood letting and human sacrifices for most of recorded history. And for an alcoholic, there is no such a thing as moderation.

If you call brain damage healthy, okay.

This episode of Star Trek was about a race that didn't give up the booze. It was the only accurate future account I've ever seen.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Was this written by a grade school kid with delusions of grandeur?

Written by James Gray (who also directed, that's a probity violation right there) and Ethan Gross (who wrote Fringe episodes, which is a parallel in vibe and thematic scientific accuracy), but I note that there did not seem to be a science advisor assigned. Had one been, it's unlikely they could have saved the film from terminal stupidity, because it needed a narrative transplant and that hardly ever happens.

 

[russ_watters]

Got to cut people in the pre-CGI era some slack, no excuse now though

The main remaining issue I see is the need for actors combined with the inability to fake gravity or lack thereof. That makes zero-g scenes really difficult to get convincing (higher positive g's are easier). Only a handful of movies have actually been filmed in zero-g.

 

[DaveC426913]

...there did not seem to be a science advisor assigned. Had one been, it's unlikely they could have saved the film from terminal stupidity, because it needed a narrative transplant and that hardly ever happens.

Agree. The very premise of the story was broken. To fix that, you'd write a different story.
Which would have been a blessing.

 

[DaveC426913]

The main remaining issue I see is the need for actors combined with the inability to fake gravity or lack thereof. That makes zero-g scenes really difficult to get convincing.

Oh phsaw.

Everybody knows that anyone floating in zero-G alllwaaaaaaays mooooooovesssss reaaaaaaalllllll sllllooooooowwwwww.

 

[russ_watters]

Oh phsaw.

Everybody knows that anyone floating in zero-G alllwaaaaaaays mooooooovesssss reaaaaaaalllllll sllllooooooowwwwww.

And oddly stiff.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

The main remaining issue I see is the need for actors combined with the inability to fake gravity or lack thereof.

That's being sorted...kind of!

https://www.space.com/russian-film-crew-soyuz-docks-at-space-station

 

[Filip Larsen]

Only a handful of movies have actually been filmed in zero-g.

The Apollo 13 movie was a real beauty in that and many other regards (and sorry for being completely off-topic here with a story that for once was done right).

 

[italicus]

And what about Star Wars? All people breathing the same air on all celestial bodies, without breathing apparatus.
gravity always the same, as on Earth, in fact they walk the same way. The Eagle (was this the name of the spacecraft ?) often jumping into hyperspace .
Anything else?

 

[Rive]

And what about Star Wars?

The general category of 'sci-fi' had to be extended with 'space opera' because of that, you know

And within that genre (opera) it is common to finish any important dialogues and sing some duets while dying from a sword though the heart.
Some troubles with the air and celestial bodies... Trivial