What should I do to understand special relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding special relativity, particularly focusing on concepts such as time dilation, length contraction, and the Lorentz transformation. Participants share their challenges in solving related problems and seek advice on resources and strategies for better comprehension.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express difficulty in solving special relativity problems and emphasize the need for a deeper understanding of the concepts rather than just memorizing formulas.
  • One participant suggests that a solid foundation in Euclidean geometry, vectors, and R^3 is beneficial for understanding special relativity.
  • Several participants recommend specific textbooks, such as "Fundamental University Physics" by Alonso and Finn and "Spacetime Physics" by Taylor and Wheeler, as helpful resources.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of understanding the Lorentz transformation both mathematically and physically, with some participants noting the need for better explanations of its implications.
  • One participant mentions the challenge of understanding how observers in different frames perceive events and suggests visualizing multiple synchronized observers to grasp the concept better.
  • Another participant reflects on their educational background, noting a lack of exposure to modern physics during their undergraduate studies, which has contributed to their current difficulties.
  • Some participants encourage sharing specific problems to facilitate targeted assistance and discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the challenges of understanding special relativity and the need for foundational knowledge. However, there are multiple competing views on the best resources and methods for learning, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the most effective approach to mastering the concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate gaps in their mathematical background that may affect their understanding of special relativity. There are also references to varying educational experiences and curricula that may influence participants' familiarity with the subject.

agnimusayoti
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Homework Statement:: There are plenty of special relativity problems on Time dilation, length constraction, and Lorentz Transformation. But, I can't solve anyone, even the simplest problem.
Relevant Equations:: Time dilation, length constraction, Lorentz Transformation

What should I do to understand the concept of special relativity so I can apply those concepts to solve Problem?? So far I just remembering the formula TT
 
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Depending at the level you are learning it, a good understanding of euclidean geometry, vectors, and understanding of R^3 does not hurt. I did not find SR difficult, because I was a math major, but I seen my friend who is a lot brighter than me struggle, because there were "basic math" holes in her knowledge, which were the holes I listed above. At what level are you trying to understand SR?If it is at the the level of introductory physics sequence, then give Alonso and Finn : Fundamental University Physics a look. The Lorentz transformation is contained in book one. It is explained extremely clear here. Moreover, I believe its construction was also given (its been a while).

There is also the book called Space Time Physics. Get the red book (I believe its the 1st).
 
Please state your understanding of the Lorentz Transformation.
 
agnimusayoti said:
Homework Statement:: There are plenty of special relativity problems on Time dilation, length constraction, and Lorentz Transformation. But, I can't solve anyone, even the simplest problem.
Relevant Equations:: Time dilation, length constraction, Lorentz Transformation

What should I do to understand the concept of special relativity so I can apply those concepts to solve Problem?? So far I just remembering the formula TT
I think you need to give us more information on how you are trying to learn SR. Is this self-study of part of a course? What textbooks or other resources are you using?

Your profile implies you have an undergraduate degree in physics and are doing a master's. Is that correct?
 
MidgetDwarf said:
Depending at the level you are learning it, a good understanding of euclidean geometry, vectors, and understanding of R^3 does not hurt. I did not find SR difficult, because I was a math major, but I seen my friend who is a lot brighter than me struggle, because there were "basic math" holes in her knowledge, which were the holes I listed above. At what level are you trying to understand SR?If it is at the the level of introductory physics sequence, then give Alonso and Finn : Fundamental University Physics a look. The Lorentz transformation is contained in book one. It is explained extremely clear here. Moreover, I believe its construction was also given (its been a while).

There is also the book called Space Time Physics. Get the red book (I believe its the 1st).
Hmm, I think its just the introduction of ST because it is included in Modern Physics Course.
So far I use the Krane and beiser's book. I can catch up the derivation of time dilation, length contraction, but then I lost when try to solve the problem. My main difficulty is about the observer. One of the difficult problem for me is relativity Velocity if the object move in R2 or more.
Yes, maybe I have to visit Finn and Alonso book to understand the Lorentz transformation.
 
Chestermiller said:
Please state your understanding of the Lorentz Transformation.
I just remembering the formula, not understanding. Besides that, the formula is for observer who move in x direction.
 
PeroK said:
I think you need to give us more information on how you are trying to learn SR. Is this self-study of part of a course? What textbooks or other resources are you using?

Your profile implies you have an undergraduate degree in physics and are doing a master's. Is that correct?
Actually, I have an undergraduate physics education. But, in my bachelor degree, I didnt get modern physics course. Btw, SR is included in my Modern Physics Course. So basically this course is new for me.
 
agnimusayoti said:
I just remembering the formula, not understanding. Besides that, the formula is for observer who move in x direction.
In order to be able to apply the Lorentz Transformation, you need to be able to provide a much better explanation of what it means physically/geometrically.
 
agnimusayoti said:
I just remembering the formula, not understanding. Besides that, the formula is for observer who move in x direction.
You ought to post one of your problems here under homework. It would give everyone a much better idea of the level you are working at.
 
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  • #10
Also, when you are applying the Lorentz Transformation, rather than thinking of what a single observer in each frame "sees," it is much better to imagine a huge array of observers deployed throughout each of the frames with clocks synchronized in each of the frames. The Lorentz Transformation tells you what observers from the two frames at the same event note on their own clocks and on the clocks of the other frame. They both agree on what their own clocks say and what the clocks in the other frame say.
 
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  • #11
agnimusayoti said:
What should I do to understand the concept of special relativity so I can apply those concepts to solve Problem?? So far I just remembering the formula TT
I'll second the recommendation for the classic text Spacetime Physics by Taylor and Wheeler. You can download the first chapter of the first edition for free from Taylor's website. You can get the entire second edition as well.
 
  • #12
Ok
Chestermiller said:
In order to be able to apply the Lorentz Transformation, you need to be able to provide a much better explanation of what it means physically/geometrically.
then, I will revisit Lorentz transformation in Finn and Alonso Book.
 
  • #13
PeroK said:
You ought to post one of your problems here under homework. It would give everyone a much better idea of the level you are working at.
Sure, After I finish my study about Lorentz Transformation, I think I will try again to do some problems. Thankss everyone!
 
  • #14
vela said:
I'll second the recommendation for the classic text Spacetime Physics by Taylor and Wheeler. You can download the first chapter of the first edition for free from Taylor's website. You can get the entire second edition as well.
Noted Sir. Thank you
 
  • #15
Chestermiller said:
Also, when you are applying the Lorentz Transformation, rather than thinking of what a single observer in each frame "sees," it is much better to imagine a huge array of observers deployed throughout each of the frames with clocks synchronized in each of the frames. The Lorentz Transformation tells you what observers from the two frames at the same event note on their own clocks and on the clocks of the other frame. They both agree on what their own clocks say and what the clocks in the other frame say.
So it's like the observation of many frames is all true, right? But, because c is absolute then space and time become relative... I think I get the big idea of special relativity, but have to take a look on the detail in Lorentz transformation., especially when deal with determination of the velocity of spaceship as observed in moving inertial frame...
 
  • #16
agnimusayoti said:
Actually, I have an undergraduate physics education. But, in my bachelor degree, I didnt get modern physics course. Btw, SR is included in my Modern Physics Course. So basically this course is new for me.

How did you get a physics degree without any modern physics (and I'm assuming that modern physics includes quantum mechanics and special relativity)?
 
  • #17
Dr Transport said:
How did you get a physics degree without any modern physics (and I'm assuming that modern physics includes quantum mechanics and special relativity)?
In my earlier university, i just taught Atomic and molecule physics, quantum physics in separate course without looking special relativity.may be the reason is SR is not included in my country curriculum at that time. but i think the mistake is on me, because I don't study seriously. Eventhough I learn quantum physics, I don't get enough understand what is learned. In my master degree (physics teaching) I decide to strengthen my physics understanding, not the pedagogical ones.
 
  • #18
In my opinion, the Lorentz Transformations are given too much emphasis for a beginner.

Consider this letter by Mermin
"Lapses in relativistic pedagogy"
American Journal of Physics 62, 11 (1994); https://doi.org/10.1119/1.17728
...Lorentz transformation doesn't belong in a first exposure to special relativity. Indispensable as it is later on, its very conciseness and power serve to obscure the subtle interconnnectedness of spatial and temporal measurements that makes the whole business work. Only a loonie would start with real orthogonal matrices to explain rotations to somebody who had never heard of them before, but that's how we often teach relativity. You learn from the beginning how to operate machinery that gives you the right answer but you acquire little insight into what you're doing with it.

In my opinion, one should first learn how to draw position-vs-time diagrams (a.k.a spacetime diagrams)
then learn how to study it with the appropriate geometry [analogous to Euclidean geometry].
I would suggest my own Insights [see my signature] (or those of others) as a possible starting point.

Yes, the 1st edition (Maroon) of Taylor & Wheeler's Spacetime Physics (available at eftaylor.com) is good.
Bondi's Relativity and Common Sense (available at archive.org) is also very good, maybe even better for a beginner.
 
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  • #19
Unfortunately I couldn't find SR topic in FInn and Alonso book. Am I right that Finn and Alonso (fundamental university Physics) is separated in 3 volume?
 

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