What volume does the v in pv denotes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the variable "v" in the equation \( pv \) within the context of a thermodynamic reaction involving magnesium (Mg) and oxygen (O2) at constant pressure. Participants explore the implications of this variable in relation to the volumes of reactants and products, particularly focusing on whether it refers to the volumes of gases or solids in the reaction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what the variable \( V_I \) represents in the equation, suggesting it may denote the volume of magnesium and oxygen.
  • Another participant proposes that \( V_I \) and \( V_F \) should be considered as the volume of O2, arguing that the volume of solids is negligible compared to gases.
  • A different participant notes that for the pressure to remain constant during the exothermic reaction, the reaction must proceed slowly to avoid temperature increases that would raise pressure unless volume increases.
  • One participant emphasizes that the heat of reaction is defined with pure reactants and products at constant temperature and pressure, implying a specific context for the volumes involved.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about neglecting the volume of solids and questions whether the gas does work against atmospheric pressure, indicating uncertainty about the concept of \( pv \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of \( V_I \) and \( V_F \), with differing views on whether these volumes pertain to gases or solids. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the significance of solid volumes in the context of the reaction.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying the neglect of solid volumes and the implications of gas volumes doing work against atmospheric pressure. These aspects are not fully clarified within the discussion.

abi.ayan
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what volume does the "v" in pv denotes?

say that in a system where pressure is constant Mg reacts with O2.when dealing with above reaction thermodynamically,
HI=UI+PVI
where H is the initial enthalpy of the system
UI is the initial internal energy of the system.

And my question is that what does the VI denotes in the equation.Is it the volume of magnesium and oxygen?
Likewise when we write the equation after the reaction, what does the VF denotes?Is it the volume of magnesium oxide formed ?
can anyone explain?
 
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Most often, you would consider only the volume of the gas, as the volume of the solid will be negligible in comparison. For the reaction you mention, I would take both VI and VF to be the volume of O2 (assuming only O2 in the reaction vessel, not e.g. air).
 
Interesting --
pressure is held constant -
Mg + O2 is exothermic reaction -
For the pressure in the vessel to remain constant -
the reaction must proceed slowly or there could be ( would be) an increase temperature resulting in an increase pressure unless the volume increases
On the slow reaction method - (think rusting) the presure would slowly decrease as oxygen combines with the magnesium - MgO2 being a solid is much denser than O2 gas
Pressure Volume Temperature o
 
abi.ayan said:
say that in a system where pressure is constant Mg reacts with O2.when dealing with above reaction thermodynamically,
HI=UI+PVI
where H is the initial enthalpy of the system
UI is the initial internal energy of the system.

And my question is that what does the VI denotes in the equation.Is it the volume of magnesium and oxygen?
Likewise when we write the equation after the reaction, what does the VF denotes?Is it the volume of magnesium oxide formed ?
can anyone explain?
The heat of reaction is defined such that, in the initial state you have pure reactants and in the final state, you have pure products. Also, the final temperature is equal to the initial temperature, and the final pressure is equal to the initial pressure (for both the reactants and the products). The change in enthalpy is equal to the amount of heat you have to add to go from the pure reactants to the pure products at the constant temperature and pressure.
 
DrClaude said:
Most often, you would consider only the volume of the gas, as the volume of the solid will be negligible in comparison. For the reaction you mention, I would take both VI and VF to be the volume of O2 (assuming only O2 in the reaction vessel, not e.g. air).
why do we neglect the volume of solids ?

so when there is a particular volume of O2 in a vessel,does it doing a work against the atmospheric pressure? I think I 've some wrong idea about "pv".
 

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