What's the 3d equation of the Alcubierre warp?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the quest for a 3D equation that represents the Alcubierre warp effect, particularly in relation to a visual representation of the warp drive concept. Participants explore the dimensionality of spacetime and the nature of the visualizations associated with the Alcubierre drive, touching on theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for a 3D equation that captures the Alcubierre warp effect, referencing a specific visual representation.
  • Several participants clarify that spacetime is 4-dimensional, and thus there is no straightforward "3D equation" for the warp spacetime.
  • There is a debate about the nature of the visual representation, with some arguing it is a heuristic illustration of spacetime rather than a true 3D depiction of space.
  • Another participant suggests that the visual representation is a 2D slice of 4D spacetime, embedded in 3D space, which is not physically real.
  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the 3D function that could represent the visual, despite their limited knowledge of the underlying mathematics or physics.
  • A later reply proposes that the visual could be generated by the intersection of a plane with an elliptical disc, indicating that multiple functions could yield similar visual results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is no single 3D equation for the Alcubierre warp effect, but they express differing views on the nature of the visual representation and its dimensionality. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific mathematical representation that could correspond to the visual.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding the mathematics and physics of the Alcubierre drive, which may affect their ability to engage with the topic fully. The discussion also highlights the ambiguity in interpreting visual representations of complex theoretical concepts.

Teslanumber1
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What I mean by this is what's the 3d equation of the alcubierrie warp effect? You know when space is contracted infront of the ship, and inflated behind it in terms of z like this eqaurion for a rain drop z=(sin(2x+y)+sin(5y+2x))/5? Here's the photo if you don't understand what I'm talking about https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Alcubierre.png
 
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There isn't a "3d equation" for the Alcubierre warp spacetime. Spacetime is 4-dimensional, not 3-dimensional.

A brief summary of the math is given on the same Wikipedia page that shows the picture you linked to. Have you read that page? Do you have questions about what is said there?
 
PeterDonis said:
There isn't a "3d equation" for the Alcubierre warp spacetime. Spacetime is 4-dimensional, not 3-dimensional.

A brief summary of the math is given on the same Wikipedia page that shows the picture you linked to. Have you read that page? Do you have questions about what is said there?
I'm not acfually asking for the equations that represent warp drive just the picture I linked which is only 3d dimensional, and which only is supposed to help visualize what happens with a alcubierre drive.
 
Teslanumber1 said:
I'm not acfually asking for the equations that represent warp drive just the picture I linked which is only 3d dimensional, and which only is supposed to help visualize what happens with a alcubierre drive.

That picture is not a 3-dimensional picture of anything. It's a way of trying to very heuristically represent what the warp drive does to spacetime, not space.
 
PeterDonis said:
That picture is not a 3-dimensional picture of anything. It's a way of trying to very heuristically represent what the warp drive does to spacetime, not space.
Yes but the actual picture shown is 3 dimensional is it not? On the x,y, and z plane? I'm simply asking what 3d function would represent that particular picture that just so happens tries to helps us visualize warp. Maybe it would have been better, and more fruitful to ask for examples of some 3d wave functions.
 
Teslanumber1 said:
the actual picture shown is 3 dimensional is it not?

Not really. It's an attempt to show the geometry of a 2-dimensional "slice" out of a 4-dimensional spacetime, and since the slice is curved, it is shown embedded in a 3-dimensional space. But the 3-dimensional space is not physically real.
 
PeterDonis said:
Not really. It's an attempt to show the geometry of a 2-dimensional "slice" out of a 4-dimensional spacetime, and since the slice is curved, it is shown embedded in a 3-dimensional space. But the 3-dimensional space is not physically real.
I'm really not asking anything about the mathematics, or physics, or intricacies of warp drive as quite frankly that's completely beyond me at my current education level, I am asking what's the 3 dimensional equation used to plot the photo that I linked.
 
Teslanumber1 said:
I'm really not asking anything about the mathematics, or physics, or intricacies of warp drive as quite frankly that's completely beyond me at my current education level

Well, this is a forum for discussing physics, so we usually assume that's what people come here to discuss. :wink:

Teslanumber1 said:
I am asking what's the 3 dimensional equation used to plot the photo that I linked.

I don't know. Since that equation isn't physically meaningful, I don't know if it is going to appear in any sources that discuss the physics of the Alcubierre drive.
 
Teslanumber1 said:
I am asking what's the 3 dimensional equation used to plot the photo that I linked.
It's just the intersection of a plane with an elliptical disc at a non-zero angle with some special effects added around the intersection points. There is no one specific set of functions; for example, ##\frac {x^2}{4^2} + \frac{y^2}{2^2} =1 ## being defined at ##z=0## only and the plane ##z=x## would produce the same thing (except for the special effects).
 

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